New Page 1

Lois and Clark Message Board
a triangle built for two     

Page 3 of 20 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 19 20 >
Topic Options
#251694 - 04/01/16 09:34 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
I like Bev's idea much better. I wish I would have thought of it a long time ago!
I think it works, especially considering the missing phone call. Clark wants to check in on her, so he calls. When she doesn't answer, he goes to check in on her in person. Bev's right that Clak had his suspicions about Luthor by this point, although nothing is definite yet. However, I don't think it was right for Clark to stick around after Lex left. Again, that's an issue I tie down to Clark being dumb because he's naive and in love for the first time. He makes mistakes, and since he never does it again(I'm going to assume Clark just happened to pass Luthor's window at the end of Barbarians at he Planet :D), he learns from them

Top
#251695 - 04/01/16 09:45 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
Not to get ahead of the podcasts, but the scene in "Requiem for a Superhero" is a turning point where Clark is tempted to use his powers to cheat, but a remark about Superman being a figure of integrity makes him realize he has to be above such petty nonsense. After that, Clark is noticeably more resistant to using his powers to take advantage of people -- although, he gives in now and then.

As for "Barbarians" -- by that point, Clark knows that Luthor has killed anywhere from 20 - 30 people and that's just what Clark's aware of -- meaning Bev's reasoning that Clark isn't stalking Lois but surveilling a dangerous criminal in uncomfortably close proximity to a co-worker is quite reasonable and appropriate.

Luthor's love for Lois is another fascinating aspect of Season 1 in that he genuinely likes and respects Lois and somehow manages to compartmentalize the fact that she would hold him in contemptuous disdain if she knew the truth about him.

Top
#251698 - 04/01/16 10:15 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Another interesting point! I hate to think that Clark took advantage of people a lot - and I'm willing to bet it wasn't all that much - but that's something I'd never observed before in Clark. I knew it was a nice stepping stone in forming Superman, but that's just another way that becoming Superman changes Clark as a whole. I'm just more willing to believe that that particular action was a one time deal.
I like the idea of Superman doing routine checks around Lex's place! Thanks for clearing that up.

Top
#251699 - 04/01/16 11:53 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
To me it fits with the upcoming I've Got A Crush On You episode when Clark blows Lois's cover at the Metro. The guy watches out for her because he knows Lex is a dangerous man.
If he thought for one moment that Lois had an inkling of his connection with Toni Taylor, he, Lex, would have done something to her.
I know there are fans who think he interfered for no good reason but jealousy, but Clark knows how dangerous Lex is. He knew there was a connection of some kind between Lex and Toni from eavesdropping on them. He got Lois out of harm's way as soon as he could. Before Lex became suspicious enough to jump to conclusions. As it was, he went straight to Lois's apartment and found out exactly what she knew and then gave her a story he knew she wouldn't ignore because she had no idea it was all a fabrication.
One reporter's life saved.
Just my take on things. And I do have to say I loved Lex's facade of flirtatious interest as he assures himself Lois knows nothing about his involvement with the Toasters. Even better, at this point Toni Taylor doesn't even know Lex's true nature either! What a complex but downright evil villain! har

Top
#251701 - 04/02/16 08:42 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: ireactions]
PMC12 Online   content
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 716
Originally Posted By: ireactions
Not to get ahead of the podcasts, but the scene in "Requiem for a Superhero" is a turning point where Clark is tempted to use his powers to cheat, but a remark about Superman being a figure of integrity makes him realize he has to be above such petty nonsense. After that, Clark is noticeably more resistant to using his powers to take advantage of people -- although, he gives in now and then.

One of my favorite scenes because we learn how important Perry's opinion is to Clark. It matters to him what his boss thinks. It also shows how hard it is to avoid temptation when you can do so much. You don't have to let your father die to show inner conflict. Just play poker at the Daily Planet!
Who and how does he take advantage of people with his powers? I loathe to admit it but I'm coming up blank here.

Top
#251706 - 04/02/16 12:14 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
I don't want to get ahead of Tom and Cory, so I'll just be vague for now. Clark has the advantage of knowing Lois from the perspective of two different identities, so as Superman, when faced with her reverence and awe and overwhelming attraction to him, Superman's also aware of what Lois says about Superman when Superman isn't around -- because Clark has heard every word of it.

It's the equivalent of stalker using a sock puppet to pretend to be a friend to learn more about his victim -- or like that ghastly case where a man created a false online identity to seduce his daughter over the Internet, convinced her to send him nude photos and proceeded to, in his guise of a jilted online lover, threaten her into obeying his sock puppet.

Naturally, Clark never goes that far and in fact actively tries to go in the opposite direction, so there's only a slight element of taking advantage here. When Superman flirts with Lois a bit in "The Neverending Battle" (telling her he's a man just as she's a woman), he's using knowledge of Lois' feelings for him that he gained as Clark.

Very interestingly, Perry declaring that Superman must always be a figure of integrity leads to scenes where Superman is polite to Lois and even acknowledges her interest but starts to create distance only to fail. There is often no way for Superman to avoid interacting with Lois and Superman cannot hide Clark's respect and fondness for her. As a result, Clark is clearly exasperated that Lois is infatuated with his false persona and dismissive of him in his real identity and starts to severely limit his Superman/Lois interaction -- but he can't always maintain the appropriate distance.

In a more straightforward example of using his powers to take advantage of others, "Strange Visitor" has Clark become utterly fed up with Lex Luthor and Lois and use his powers to take them both down a few pegs. Luthor completely has it coming.

Lois... also sort of has it coming, but Clark basically used his powers to humiliate a co-worker instead of, say, calling HR to file a complaint. It's a gray area. Basically, Clark is not perfect. He's a normal guy who happens to be Superman; he experiences frustration and jealousy like anyone else, and the series gets a lot of mileage over how Clark has an impeccable sense of morality but is often put into impossible situations.

There's also Clark getting exclusive interviews and quotes from Superman, which is, for all kinds of reasons, a massive violation of journalistic ethics.

**

Rewatching the episodes -- it's neat to see how Season 1 experiments quite boldly. "The Neverending Battle" has Luthor attacking Superman on a conceptual level. "Strange Visitor" shows Clark threatened by an enemy potentially hitting his secret identity. "I'm Looking Through You" has Clark dealing with a victim/antagonist with whom he identifies strongly. "Requiem for a Superhero" attempts to play it straight and attack Superman physically.

"I've Got a Crush on You" attempts to give Superman a job for Clark Kent. "Smart Kids" is a victim/villain identification episode and "Green Glow" attacks Superman both physically and in terms of his dual identity. They're not all winners, but they show a writing staff clearly trying -- as opposed to simply having Clark throw a villain through a wall every week like that other SUPERMAN show.

Top
#251711 - 04/04/16 08:47 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
New Podcast! http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/

Hurray! Here's my mini-essay in response to "Neverending Battle."

On finding the show: Amazon's streaming service offers Seasons 1 & 4 for $15 each, but Seasons 2 - 3 are $30 each. $90 is a bit much. But I see the DVDs available: Season 1 for $10, Season 2 for $12, Season 3 for $21 and Season 4 for $12. $55 for all four seasons is pretty reasonable. eBay also offers the DVDs at lower rates than Amazon if you do some hunting.

"The Neverending Battle": One of the greatest struggles with writing Superman: he's ridiculously powerful and difficult to antagonize or threaten, especially on a TV budget already straining to depict one superhuman character. Both "The Neverending Battle" and "Strange Visitor" are attempts to figure out how to attack Superman on a weekly basis and both offer great ideas.

Villains: "The Neverending Battle" has Luthor attacking the very concept of Superman; Superman saves people, but Luthor intends to flood Superman's life with counterfeit saves, creating so much junk data Superman won't be able to figure out who's in danger and who isn't. Deborah Joy Levine was asked to create a Superman series as part of her development deal; she saw serious problems with the character and she and her writers approach them with an experimentation and a sincere interest in finding solutions. Luthor has yet to find a way to attack Superman's body, so he turns his malevolence on Superman's spirit.

Tom and Cory definitely enjoyed Luthor's portrayal in this episode. They note that the pogo stick is baffling. It's meant to indicate something about Lex's sex life, which the Pilot also touched upon. A later scene informs us that a cheerleader is waiting on Lex.

They also declared that they would not expect any of Lex's three henchmen to return. One of them actually does! It's Nigel (named Albert in the script), the Englishman. Oh, Nigel.

Generalizations: This episode's strong script has its flaws. In the Pilot, Cory took Levine to task for presenting Chinese food fortune cookies as an authentic part China's cuisine when they were created in Los Angeles and largely absent from restaurants in China. It was a valiant effort stymied by the writer's ignorance and probably a lack of time to conduct research. This wasn't the Internet era when you could Google this stuff.

With "The Neverending Battle," we have Luthor's three henchmen. One is defined as being black, referring to himself as black and indicating that on Planet Levine, all black people are basketball players. One is defined as being a woman who is defined as hating men. One is defined as being British and being aggressively prim and proper. This is an odd instance of malpractice; where Levine took pains to give each character in the Pilot a quirk, she allowed this episode's screenwriter to define two characters by race and gender and the other by accent. God, the 1990s were a tough time.

Repetition: The other massive failing of this episode is an inexplicable inability to trust the audience at a critical point. When Clark is depressed over Luthor having effectively grounded him, Lois tells Clark: "What he can't do -- it doesn't matter. It's the _idea of Superman. Someone to believe in. Someone to build a few hopes around. Whatever he can do -- it's enough."

For some baffling reason, the aired episode proceeds to repeat these previous lines in voiceover for Clark for the benefit of anyone who might have forgotten words that were spoken less than a minute previous. This crushing failure of trust is not in the script; it's clearly been added in the editing stage with no concern for the fact that Teri Hatcher did not deliver her dialogue to work as a disembodied voice and what works coming out of her mouth sounds bizarre as voiceover.

So what we have here is 1990s TV where creators and networks had yet to trust that audiences were sufficiently capable to understand visual storytelling and spoken information without needing to be guided to each and every emotional point. For God's sake.

Lois Lane: Where Lois was unlikable at times in the Pilot, Deborah Joy Levine allows her to be utterly contemptible this week. She steals Clark's story while pretending she's on his side. She struts around the office declaring she and only she should be permitted to write Superman articles. telling Clark he should thank her for having taken advantage of his trust. She attempts to steal a story from Eduardo Friez.

In an interesting contrast to modern shows where anti-social, selfish people tend to be flattered for getting their way, LOIS & CLARK promptly comes down on Lois for her bad behaviour like a ton of bricks, first critically by having Clark look down upon her and then consequentially by deciding to send Lois on a wild goose chase that leaves her covered in sewage and mosquito bites. Throughout this episode, it's only Teri Hatcher's comic timing that keeps Lois from being in any way relatable -- and then in a neat twist reminiscent of Lex in the Pilot, Lois is gracious in defeat and even admires Clark for standing up to her.

Clark: Dean Cain's Superman is no better than in the Pilot. In fact, he's worse. He's given a critical moment of confrontation with Luthor where, in a rage, Superman fires a gun into Luthor's face and catches the bullet just before it strikes. Cain just can't sell the rage here, just as he can't seem to quite connect with Teri Hatcher when playing Superman. I'm supposed to see a godlike figure. I see an actor in a suit he finds uncomfortable with a hairstyle that's not quite right for him delivering dialogue he cannot perform with any conffidence or charisma.

Which makes it all the more strange that Cain's Clark Kent is just superb. From his discomfort during his interrogation to his pranking Lois with exasperation, Cain's Clark is a wellspring of warmth and goodwill. Cain's intense likability easily gets the audience on his side. He has chemistry with every other actor -- his scenes with Lois, Jimmy and Cat are a delight, his fencing with Lois is hilarious.

Most notably, Cain convinces his portraying his frustration with Lois. But it's a low-key, gentle frustration. Cain's Clark doesn't get angry; he gets exasperated -- and when scripted with rage in his scene with Luthor, Cain just can't convince. Cain, from all accounts, is a very gentle, friendly, earnest Clark-like figure. The only difference between the Dean Cain and Clark Kent personas, really, is that Dean Cain had a much more active sex life.

I think what it comes down to is that the Superman suit is not a comfortable set of clothes. Cain is clearly much more at ease in a suit and tie or in his sleeveless casual clothes and with his hair let down. He comes off as an incredibly powerful person who enjoys living among normal people; the clothes give his posture and body language comfort and props to work with, the glasses give him something physical to work with.

A skintight outfit is essentially Dean Cain naked and his performance as Superman has the discomfort of someone who wandered onto a nude beach, stripped and now regrets it.

Humour: Tom remarked when talking about "Strange Visitor" that Superman is barely in this show and that's probably for the best. Tom and Cory also remark that the Lois of the comics in this era had a much harder edge than the frequently goofy, silly character of L&C.

That's simply because LOIS & CLARK is not attempting to be serious adventure fantasy. It's aiming for humour. Curiously, many SUPERMAN comics and films were exceedingly absurd, yet none of them were like LOIS & CLARK because none of them were trying to be a romantic comedy where all the jokes come from character interactions as opposed to extended sequences of farce or bizarre visuals like Superman with a flying dog. Lois is frequently silly, but I have no problem believing that the 90s Lois was silly between panels, silly when we didn't see her.

LOIS & CLARK gives us all the personal, intimate moments between adventures that other comics and films skipped past, like Clark doing his damned laundry or sending Lois on a wild goose chase to a sewage plant. It could easily be cruel; Cain performs it as the outcome of a Superman at his wit's end with Lois and it's hilarious that, as vengeful reprisals go, this is pretty mild.

Next: "Strange Visitor"!

Top
#251722 - 04/06/16 06:03 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
I really liked the way they set this episode up. Luthor's organization is highly amusing, particularly that he has "know thy enemy" on the marquee.

Lois's horrified reaction to herself here tells me that if Lois were to discover Clark equals Superman even this early on, it would stay out of the paper. If she can't bear a stolen story, there's no way she'd be that cruel. I also enjoyed Clark's approach to her out of control behavior. That kind of consequence is exactly what Lois needed, but Clark wasn't smug about it.

I love seeing how inspiring Clark is outside of the suit. By taking down Mad Dog Lane, he's becoming an inspiration to Jimmy through action (if only inadvertently) in addition to his verbal encouragement and belief in him. His powers allow Superman to be a hero, but Clark's courage and goodness affect everyone in the newsroom, too.

I've always loved the dynamics between Lois and Lucy. Lois took care of Lucy on a more parental level, which makes sense. But Lucy in return acted as a support for Lois with her emotional shortcomings. That gives us another good, normal character while giving Lois a much needed confidant. I've always been disappointed that they didn't keep her.

I don't have much to say on Strange Visitor, but I enjoyed your commentary.


Top
#251724 - 04/06/16 07:51 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: AnnieL]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: AnnieL
I've always been disappointed that they didn't keep her.

I don't have much to say on Strange Visitor, but I enjoyed your commentary.



Lucy is def good support for Lois but i was never a big Lucy fan even in the comics. Wasn't she blind in the comics or was for a brief period? I seem to remember her being involved with the Bizarro story back in the 80's but not much more. Though I do remember that they even replace the Lucy actor in the later season for better or worse.

Glad you enjoyed the podcast! We used some of your feedback in our newest episode that will be out on Monday. We record episodes on the day that we release the podcast. So listen for your mention! smile

Top
#251730 - 04/08/16 08:09 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
The one thing about NB that I always noticed was Cat's line to Lois about what happened between Lois and Superman on the space station, but no one else seems to give it any significance. (Well, KateW and I talked about it.)
To me it's an indication that Lois did get to the space station to get her interviews with the colonists and came back with the flight crew when Superman returned the shuttle to Earth. The last part is speculation, but Lois did get to the space station.
Alas, the info means absolutely nothing to anyone but me. My little theory not even noticed- snubbed by no less than two podcasts! (JK, JK) har

I've noticed the two things you mentioned about SV, too: Trask's obsession, or fear, of aliens blinds him to so much that is right in front of his eyes, and the same obsession makes him believe in alien myths with no real basis or proof for the myths. He never sees the clues that Clark might just be Superman- dismissing beeping lie detectors as faulty and fired bullets on the floor of the plane as having missed. But, he has no trouble believing Superman can communicate through telepathy based on Lois teasing remark about not needing to speak aloud with Superman to communicate their feelings to one another.
I've often wondered how he would have reacted to later events in the series, but maybe it was a good thing he never had a chance. Who knows what he would have nuked?

Top
Page 3 of 20 < 1 2 3 4 5 ... 19 20 >

Moderator:  ChrisP, Kismatt, widget