New Page 1

Lois and Clark Message Board
a triangle built for two     

Page 1 of 20 1 2 3 ... 19 20 >
Topic Options
#251610 - 03/23/16 01:16 AM The Rewatch Podcast: The End Is Near!
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Hi everyone! i wanted to let you all know about a new Lois And Clark podcast! That's right, a SECOND podcast based on our old 90's fave! We've actually talked with the Lois and Clark'd guys as well and there may even be a future crossover between our shows down the line!

Our show comes hot on the heels of Cory (my cohost) and I finishing up a Rewatch of that other 90's show, Sliders. Over the past nine months or so we basically covered two episodes of the show every week, working in a synopsis, a discussion, behind the scenes trivia or deleted scenes, as well as some very bad celebrity impressions peppered in for good form. Back in September we started discussing what we would do once we finished Sliders and Cory brought up the LaC idea and being a huge fan of the show since way back when, I said yeah let's do it! That's when I learned about Matt and Ryan's plans for a similar show.

I do just want to say that we have the utmost respect and admiration for Matt and Ryan! I've been following their show and love the interviews and have plans to point people to their show as well. They have the access so we are more than happy to plug their show to anyone following us over from Sliders.

We do hope you'll give us a try as well. There's more than enough room for two podcasts about such a great show so please do listen, give us feedback, send us some stories or comments, anything, we'd love to hear what you think. Our episode zero which introduces Cory and myself will be out soon, as well as episode one (both releasing on the same day) which covers the pilot. If you don't care about who WE are then skip zero and go right for episode one. On the other hand, if ya wanna know who we are, why we chose this show, and a bunch of other personal stuff, listen in to zero.

Ok, long enough now. Thanks for reading and hope to hear from you all soon! I'll post here when the episodes are up!


Edited by tom2point0 (03/20/17 03:23 PM)

Top
#251611 - 03/23/16 06:53 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast Featuring Lois And Clark! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
I have to enjoy this interest in the show after all this time.
I know I'll give it a listen because I like hearing other fans reactions and opinions of the show and the characters. I've discovered I like the opinions of first time viewers the best but I also like hearing long held or newly realized fan theories, too. No one is right, no one is wrong, just fans who love the show and like to share what they think.

Top
#251613 - 03/23/16 10:44 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast Featuring Lois And Clark! [Re: tom2point0]
KateW Offline
Clark Defenders United

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 1729
I second that. How will your venue be available? iTunes alone? Or more than one source?

Kate, loving that the show is getting such positive attention after years of fanboy dismissal

Top
#251614 - 03/23/16 10:45 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast Featuring Lois And Clark! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
^^^ That's exactly it isn't it? Everyone has their own views and opinions on the shows that it makes for good discussion.

One of our most supportive Sliders listeners, iReactions at Sliders.tv, contributed weekly to our podcast but often had differing viewpoints on some of our discussion points. Just made it more interesting to hear it from a different side view.

Looking forward to hearing YOUR thoughts on our take!

Top
#251615 - 03/23/16 10:49 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast Featuring Lois And Clark! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Definitely we will be in iTunes but you can get episodes from our site as well: Rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com.

On that page you'll also see Movie Rewatch episodes which I'm not involved in but are still a fun listen for cinema fans.

Top
#251620 - 03/23/16 04:14 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast Featuring Lois And Clark! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Oh and we just started archiving the audio in YouTube as well if that's what you like to get your entertainment on too: https://goo.gl/Y3U6dN

Top
#251655 - 03/29/16 03:27 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Hey all! It is HERE!

We've got episode zero and episode one for you all to check out! Check out the webpage at www.rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com or if you want just separate links...

Episode Zero is all about Cory and myself and is located here: http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/enclosure/2016-03-28T16_45_00-07_00.mp3

Episode One is about the pilot and is here: http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/enclosure/2016-03-28T17_06_18-07_00.mp3

And no joke, send us feedback or post here and we will include some in the show!


Edited by tom2point0 (03/29/16 03:30 PM)

Top
#251658 - 03/29/16 09:58 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Great podcast! I enjoyed your review of the pilot.
I didn't intend to leave you a novel, but you make so many great points that I couldn't help myself.

Not a lot of people notice that Lois starts liking Clark as a person in the pilot. There's evidently resentment there, but once you take out all of her assumptions and look at her reactions to Clark, he surprises her. I love Clark's reaction to the joke about Platt's death, for example, but if you pay attention to the Lois, she looks suprised and impressed. Without taking any further episodes into account, it's noticeable that most of her dislike comes from her own assumptions.

I know that they don't use fortune cookies in China, but I've never associated that with the show before. Interesting!

Lex could have easily lasted longer as a long-term villain had they not gone the direction they go during the season finale. While he completely contradicts Superman, he uses the same game plan for hiding who he is; they're opposite sides of the same coin. Their disguises keep each other from getting anywhere, making them the ultimate rivals.
As for the snake, I think it's very plausible that his tear came from fear. Lex needs a challenge to prove himself, but that doesn't mean he isn't capable of human fear sometimes. It's a little strange, but he's also in a potentially deadly situation.

I've always wondered what it is exactly that made Lois so comfortable around Lex while she pushes everyone else away, but as you've pointed out, it doesn't seem that way at all. I can see Lois being more respectful to Lex just because she wants the interview - and perhaps she sees him as less of a threat than Clark - but she is suspicious of him. If I had to give a reason, I would think that it's his mysterious persona that sets her off. Why would someone so wealthy and good refuse to give interviews? Knowing Lois, the cynical side is going to play out and she's automatically going to assume that he's not all he says he is.

Now that you mention it, Lex's manipulation does start right away rather than at Requiem. It wasn't Lex's natural personality that lowered her guard; it was his careful observations that prompted him to create the first layers of his facade around her, strictly tailored to her comfort. Maybe he did mean what he said, but there's no question that at this point, he saw her mainly as a prize.

I heard somewhere that Martha and Jonathan were only supposed to be there for the pilot, but they were liked so much that they got full contracts. I'm glad Clark has such wonderful parents, as I can't see someone so naive and innately good not having them to confide in. In many ways, Clark is still just a kid trying to find his place in the world, and I think that having both parents living and actively supporting him in his life is vital in maintaining his innocent charm.

I agree that Clark should be cut a little slack for stalking Lois since I don't think that's how it was intended to be taken. The script actually has Clark calling Lois, then going to visit her after getting her voicemail. In that case, Clark's timing would be coincidence, and he would be eavesdropping rather than stalking. I hate that, but I think it shows just how naive he is. Has Clark ever felt jealousy like this before? From the way he's acting, it seems like he's nothing more than a young man in love for the first time.



Top
#251661 - 03/30/16 08:33 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
I enjoyed your format quite a bit. The trivia bits are interesting, and you'll get a lot of listeners from long time fans.
Quote:
I agree that Clark should be cut a little slack for stalking Lois since I don't think that's how it was intended to be taken. The script actually has Clark calling Lois, then going to visit her after getting her voicemail. In that case, Clark's timing would be coincidence, and he would be eavesdropping rather than stalking. I hate that, but I think it shows just how naive he is. Has Clark ever felt jealousy like this before? From the way he's acting, it seems like he's nothing more than a young man in love for the first time.

I always saw it as Clark just watching out for his co-worker whom he likes very much, because he never does it again. Lois didn't see Lex's behavior and threat with the sword to Clark in his study and had no idea he had that side to him. He keeps it hidden from her successfully right up to the last show of the season, and no amount of warning from Clark ever shook her belief in Lex's "goodness."
I like that Clark looked out for her until he was satisfied Lex had no reason to harm her. After that he let it go. He still looked out for her but he held his own feelings in check mostly successfully despite his frustration with Lois's trust in the facade Lex constructed for her.
I guess I just refuse to see Clark as a stalker, if I'm completely honest with myself.har
Anyway, I like your format, as I said before, and will listen again.




Edited by BevK (03/30/16 10:02 AM)

Top
#251668 - 03/30/16 09:42 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
I liked it, too! In fact, my son and I have started listening to the Sliders podcasts, too. He !oved that show until the Cro Mags became regular characters. He never liked them so I guess we'll listen that far, at least.

Top
#251680 - 03/31/16 07:43 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
For the SLIDERS REWATCH podcast, I did mini-essays to follow each podcast. Eventually, I gave the mini-essays to Tom and Cory before the podcasts and they incorporated them into their discussions because of all the behind the scenes info. I have far, far, far less inside information on LOIS & CLARK, but as a fan, I intend to keep doing the mini-essays (and also supply them with deleted scenes from scripts).

So, I hope it's okay if I post 'em here as well as Sliders.tv. I watched episodes of L&C now and then as a kid when it first aired, but I constantly missed episodes, lost track of the show, and memory got foggy. I saw and loathed a few Season 4 episodes and then mistakenly believed it had always been like that until re-reading the Season 1 scripts years later and realizing L&C had started out pretty well.

So, on the Pilot:

The Pilot is, like all pilots, a rough draft for the series to come. In this case, it's a rough draft for Season 1 of the series. As 90s TV goes, it's subject to all the flaws, but it also captures the best assets of the era. Lois and Clark are spectacular TV characters and a joy to welcome into the home on a weekly basis.

Format: Tom and Cory noted that the Pilot wasn't a huge critical success. One of my maxims is to review the story the creator set out to tell, not the one you would like them to tell. L&C was not meant to be a modern day myth of gods and monsters; it wasn't an American version of the Christ saviour. This wasn't SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE -- it was MOONLIGHTING and REMINGTON STEELE mixed with HIS GIRL FRIDAY and WHEN HARRY MET SALLY. It was an attempt to distill the SUPERMAN concept into the romcom and sitcom formats. Try to enjoy LOIS & CLARK as a superhero action series and you'll hate it. See it as the workplace dramedy it was meant to be and you'll at least see it on its own terms.

Lois Lane: With characters, we start with Lois, whom showrunner Deborah Joy Levine fearlessly makes unlikable on numerous counts. She's rude to Clark, dismissive of Perry, selfishly determined to work only with those she doesn't have to credit for her success (Jimmy), prepared to use sexual allure to get an interview with Lex Luthor -- but she's also brave, clever and capable.

She breaks into a space program twice, identifies the motive for the sabotage, listens to a disgraced scientist and pursues the truth. Her lack of respect for her colleagues is balanced by her compassion for the weak and vulnerable, specifically Dr. Platt's wife and the colonists who may be in danger. Teri Hatcher has to be both goofily overemotional and hard-edged without being hateful and she does both well.

Clark Kent: Then we have Clark. Dean Cain is a fantastic Clark. The character is scripted as a straight arrow with an impeccable sense of morality and care for others, but both the script and Cain give Clark little quirks and moments to show he's an eccentric, offbeat, peculiar fellow whose superpowers have given him a truly bizarre perspective on life and humanity.

There's little touches like Clark's super-senses giving him constant awareness of the world around him from runaway buses to homeless people in alleys. There's his fondness for junk food. Cain and Levine truly sell that Clark is such a decent, perfect figure by emphasizing his earnest, intellectual side matched with a benign sense of mischief.

Visual Quality: The Pilot, despite being as bound to soundstages as a Season 5 episode of SLIDERS, is very nicely filmed. There's a terrific sense of physical interplay between all the actors, especially Lois and Clark. Perry White's silly yet commanding presence works well. Michael Landes as Jimmy is a nice foil for Lois. The Daily Planet bullpen is warm and inviting and full of time. The emphasis is really on people and their interactions.

Strong Screenwriting: The true strength of Deborah Joy Levine's scripts is in all the careful character moments: Perry using Jimmy to repair his golf cart, Jimmy grousing about having to write obituaries, Lois admitting to having no personal life, Clark understanding Dr. Platt's technobabble while Lois does not, Lex Luthor's sex life, etc.. Every single character has something in addition to their plot function. A quirk. An obsession. A longing. A failing. A strength. Lex Luthor is evil, but his planning and graciousness in defeat are to be admired, especially in the scene where he congratulates Superman on having kicked Lex's ass out of the space race.

Errors: The script suffers in some areas of implausibility. As Tom and Cory observe, Lois sneaking aboard the spacecraft is ridiculous. Dr. Baines putting Lois, Clark and Jimmy in a convoluted and unsupervised deathtrap is dumb. Clark figures out that Luthor is sabotaging the space program from a few throwaway lines of dialogue that Lois inexplicably misses. Superman effectively divulges his identity to Lex Luthor by revealing he was present for a private conversation between Lex, Clark and Lois, yet Luthor doesn't catch this and won't. These are all silly flaws in most superhero fiction.

Superman: The main problem, although oddly not a dealbreaker, is Superman. Dean Cain's Superman is very poor, but it's one for which Cain cannot be held wholly responsible. Cain's Superman is awkward in every aspect: awkwardly characterized, lit, filmed, directed and the effects are not on his side.

Superman is filmed in medium shots, never emphasizing his build or putting him at the center of a larger scene; the character doesn't dominate the screen. The costume looks okay in the Pilot, but it looks shockingly poor in subsequent episodes (we'll get there).

In contrast to Clark Kent, Superman's dialogue in the script is generic: formal, stilted, detached -- in an effort to differentiate the easygoing, casual Clark, Superman is stiff and rigid on paper. Dean Cain's performance reflects all the weaknesses of the material, reflecting a terrible indecisiveness in his work, especially his overstrained, "All you need to do is LOOK UP." Levine is awesome beyond awesome when crafting banter and characterization, but writing superhero speeches doesn't seem to be in her arsenal.

When Cain is in Clark Kent's clothes, the performance and special effects are perfectly suited; a genial, friendly, welcoming demeanor with a few subtle touches to remind you that this is a superhuman being passing for normal.

When Cain is in Superman's costume, he removes the Clark-isms but doesn't replace them with anything. Cain's Superman is a generic do-gooder falling into all the traps the Clark character so deftly avoids.

The Costume: In addition, the costume doesn't suit Cain. The dark colour and fit of the tights actually conceal his toned, muscled physique; Superman's body is a vaguely defined navy blue that doesn't make Cain stand out. The hairstyle -- basically Clark's but combed back a bit -- is not suited to Cain's features. Longer hair frames his face and softens his look; pushing it back makes his head look oversized to his body.

The Performance: Cain's Superman comes off as Dean Cain in a mismatched costume delivering dialogue he can't get to work. John Shea's easy confidence reduces Cain's Superman to seeming petulant and irritable. Looking at other actors: Christopher Reeve gave his Superman an affable confidence that made him seem trustworthy and he glowed with charisma. Gerard Christopher's Superboy was a commanding god with a sense of humour. Tom Welling's Clark in Superman mode was urgent yet gentle. Brandon Routh's Superman was thoughtful and earnest. All of them contrasted their Superman with an ineffectual, awkward Clark.

Cain doesn't get to do that, so his challenge is tougher than any other actor to take on the role. Cain is playing Clark as competent, charming, capable -- which creates a problem where Clark has Superman's personality and Superman has no personality at all. One solution would be to have Cain play his Superman with all the Clarkisms -- but emphasize the special effects more so that the superhuman Superman would never be compared to the grounded Clark in-universe. That's not an option for a TV budget.

The other solution would be for Dean Cain to drastically alter his performance: play Clark as-is, but give Superman a deeper voice and completely different body language, perhaps that of swaggering boxer, something that comes out of him when he wears the costume. Superman's scene with Lois would have Superman exhibiting concern without romance; his scene with Lex would be Superman delivering accusations with outrage and threat. Or maybe Cain's Superman could be more aloof and unknowable like Routh or Henry Cavill.

Dean Cain: From an acting standpoint, the problem with L&C's Clark/Superman divide is that Dean Cain wasn't there yet as an actor. Christopher Reeve had been acting for 17 years and since he was 9-years-old when he was cast to play Superman. He was a Juilliard-trained actor who saw acting as a calculated, precise art form where unrehearsed naturalism was an illusion to be created.

In contrast, Dean Cain was a former football player turned screenwriter turned actor. Acting was not his lifelong passion, but rather a job he turned to after a knee injury ended his sports career and he was getting more offers to be in commercials than to write screenplays. Cain was certainly a capable actor -- he could memorize dialogue, present his characters' emotions, win the audience's enmity or fondness, perform physical action -- but he was not a skilled, trained, refined master thespian at that point in his life.

Cain could play a great Clark Kent. He could play a great Superman. But to play Clark Kent and Superman as two distinct personas who go unrecognized as the same person despite both identities while interacting with the same four people -- that was just beyond Cain at this point, especially with the script failing to provide the duality.

Giving Cain this impossible job -- a Clark Kent/Superman dual identity with no real differences between the two -- was like having a sewing champion perform brain surgery. To pull this off, Cain needed more help than he was given -- perhaps a mime artist to create two different sets of body language, maybe a voice coach like John Rhys-Davies.

But L&C just suck him in the costume and sent him on camera. And it's a shame, because Cain's Clark is so terrific that all the raw material to be an equally terrific Superman is there, just not mined due to Cain's inexperience and the production's limits. When Superman appears, he's awkward -- I desperately want him offscreen as quickly as possible so we can get back to Clark.

Saving Grace: Oddly, this doesn't destroy LOIS & CLARK -- because ultimately, Superman is at best a cameo role in terms of screentime. The majority of Cain's screentime is as Clark Kent, which means the majority of his performance doesn't suffer. Cain truly was Superman for the 1990s -- he was Clark and he was superb. His chemistry with Teri Hatcher is dynamite -- they are so much fun to see onscreen together, working on stories, conducting interviews, contrasting Clark's idealism and Lois' cynicism.

LOIS & CLARK, to this date, is the most relatable, humanized version of Superman -- and Deborah Joy Levine brilliantly transformed the fantasy-action of SUPERMAN into a workplace dramedy. She is a truly capable screenwriter and a credit to her profession. Naturally, she was fired after the first season.

Cory and Tom talk about how they look forward to reviewing a show with a consistent creative vision and a strong sense of continuity and it's at this point I had to pull the car over to the side of the road and laugh uncontrollably for ten minutes.

But we don't have to worry about any of that for now! Onto Episodes 2 - 3 / 3 - 5 / can someone sort out the numbering here?

Top
#251685 - 04/01/16 10:07 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
Jake Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/04/15
Posts: 152
You're playing with fire here. Dissing the show on a message board that has been in constant use for around fifteen years to discuss a twenty year old show that FOLCs love is like stepping into the line of fire. People have taken exception to any comments pro or con anout Teri Hatcher's haircut - to the point ot taking it personally - to taking down pictures and websites because they were insulted in some way by other fans.
You'd think after twenty years that peole would be more forgiving since tbis show has never been a fanboy favorite in all that time.
Still, I agree with some of what you wrote, but I like the show. It works for me. The fantasy is there so production values and lack of a tinv experience is secondary to being able to enter the world and live it tbrough the characters. The same with the pre 52 comics. The Superman universe being plausible to me is all that matters.

Top
#251686 - 04/01/16 10:40 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
I don't see criticism as a bad thing-the show has its issues, but I agree that the things that didn't work as well didn't kill it because they weren't the focus.
I agree with what you said about Dean Cain as Superman-that maybe it wasn't the most natural thing in the world. But I think it's also important to remember that Clark is getting used to being Superman, too. He wouldn't have been completely natural because he was mild-mannered and slightly timid as opposed to Superman's unapologetic boldness. He wouldn't have been used to the attention that Superman gets or the way he was going to act as Superman in order to perfect his persona. That's something that is specifically written into the script, to an extent, and that grew over time. As Clark grew into the role of Superman, so did Dean.


Edited by AnnieL (04/01/16 12:30 PM)

Top
#251687 - 04/01/16 11:40 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: Jake]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
Originally Posted By: Jake
You're playing with fire here. Dissing the show on a message board that has been in constant use for around fifteen years to discuss a twenty year old show that FOLCs love is like stepping into the line of fire. People have taken exception to any comments pro or con anout Teri Hatcher's haircut - to the point ot taking it personally - to taking down pictures and websites because they were insulted in some way by other fans.


Perhaps I'm mis-reading you, but I found this a strangely threatening remark.

I wrote glowingly of Teri Hatcher's performance, Dean Cain's Clark Kent, Deborah Joy Levine's screenwriting and John Shea's performance -- I called Levine's reconception of SUPERMAN as a romantic comedy in a workplace setting "brilliant" -- but that's a problem because I don't think she writes superheroes as well as she writes workplace dramedy? And I should therefore be afraid?

I've never considered putting pixels on a screen to be "playing with fire." I'm a student of the superhero genre and I'm a fan of Tom and Cory's podcasts and joined the board to support them and share my enjoyment of LOIS & CLARK, but I don't ignore the show's weaknesses anymore than its strengths.

Originally Posted By: AnnieL
I don't see criticism as a bad thing-the show has its issues, but I agree that the things that didn't work as well didn't kill it because they weren't the focus. I agree with what you said about Dean Caine as Superman-that maybe it wasn't the most natural thing in the worldBut I think it's also important to remember that Clark is getting used to being Superman, too. He wouldn't have been completely natural because he was mild-mannered and slightly timid as opposed to Superman's unapologetic boldness. He wouldn't have been used to the attention that Superman gets or the way he was going to act as Superman in order to perfect his persona. That's something that is specifically written into the script, to an extent, and that grew over time. As Clark grew into the role of Superman, so did Dean.


I never came to enjoy Cain's Superman -- although I love his Clark.

As a point of comparison, the ANIMATED SERIES premiere also has a Superman/Luthor scene near the end. In this scene, Luthor finds Superman hovering outside his window. Luthor rants at Superman: Luthor doesn't know what Superman's overheard, but he knows what Superman can prove -- nothing. Metropolis belongs to Luthor; the people work for him whether they know it or not and he rules every facet of their lives. Superman can either join Luthor's flock or be destroyed. Superman stares silently at Luthor, floating outside. Luthor, enraged by Superman's lack of response, hurls a model robot at Superman -- who catches it and crushes it to dust. "I'll be watching you, Luthor," Superman says and flies away. Superman's quiet, undemonstrative demeanor exudes power, confidence and morality.

Maybe the solution to Dean Cain's Superman would have been that less is more. I dunno. His Clark starts out superb and by the end of the show, Cain embodies Clark Kent more than any actor before or after him. Tom Welling played a character named Clark, but he was really playing Superman.

I will say that Deborah Joy Levine includes a *really* nice line in the Pilot confrontation -- she has Superman say, "Like any other citizen of the planet, I must obey the law. I am not ABOVE it." Levine's sudden aversion to contractions aside, that's a pretty great line and it shows what Dean Cain's Superman is all about.

Dean Cain played an iconic Clark Kent despite not being a clumsy klutz; he played an honourable, kind, compassionate superhuman who lives among ordinary people. Cain, in the costume, never convinces me that he is Superman whereas Routh and Reeve convinced me easily.

But Cain convinces me that Clark is a god who enjoys living as a normal guy, something neither Routh nor Reeve could ever sell. In contrast, Cain shows that Clark experiences joy, love, humour, delight and happiness in chasing down newspaper stories, fencing with Lois, playing poker with Perry, and doing all the stuff Superman can't do.

As I said, LOIS & CLARK has many strengths -- but I don't think admiring what the show achieved means ignoring its faults.

Top
#251688 - 04/01/16 12:42 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
I completely get where you're coming from, and although it doesn't really bother me, I mostly agree. I just thought I'd point out that IMO, it's not always as bad as it is in the Pilot because of that growth. I'll speak up if I have a different opinion on something, but again, I think it's perfectly fine to criticize.

I liked your essay, and I encourage you to keep it up.


Edited by AnnieL (04/01/16 12:55 PM)

Top
#251689 - 04/01/16 12:48 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
Jake Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/04/15
Posts: 152
I apologize. That was not the intent.
It wasn't a threat. I just wanted to point out that feelings can be hurt by the simplest comment or observation. I know. I criticized some fan fic, which wasn't welcome.

Top
#251690 - 04/01/16 05:29 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
Well, I'm not going to worry about feelings because I have no intention of critiquing people -- just the TV show.

I think the most fascinating thing about L&C's first season, which I'm eager to get into with my essays for the next four episodes/two podcasts -- the writers are clearly engaged with the problem of how to challenge an invulnerable character. The image of bullets bouncing off Superman's chest is too engrained in American consciousness to discard, but it results in a functionally invincible lead.

As a result, "The Neverending Battle," "Strange Visitor," "I'm Looking Through You" and "Requiem for a Superhero" all feature four different approaches to antagonizing Superman.

While the results may not all be winners, the methods are cleverly considered and extremely well-conceived. Writers Deborah Joy Levine, Daniel Levine, Bryce Zabel and Robert Killbrew show a very respectful interest in finding ways to make Superman work on a TV scale and demonstrate tremendous thought and imagination.

Top
#251691 - 04/01/16 07:53 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Glad you're all enjoying the podcast and our format! Cory and I were on the same page when we started doing the Rewatch Podcast. The sectional, organized segments were deliberate right from the start so we are pleased that so many appreciate it!

We will get some feedback from here in the next NEXT episode. We already recorded our podcast covering L&C episodes two and three. We are always about a week ahead of things. So thanks again for your comments! We're loving it!

Oh and welcome to iReactions making it over here!

Top
#251692 - 04/01/16 07:56 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: BevK]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: BevK

I always saw it as Clark just watching out for his co-worker whom he likes very much
I guess I just refuse to see Clark as a stalker, if I'm completely honest with myself.har
Anyway, I like your format, as I said before, and will listen again.


Awesome! Glad to have you aboard! And of course I agree, Clark is not a stalker. That's just my sense of humor! wink

Top
#251693 - 04/01/16 08:35 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
I totally think Clark is a stalker. What he does in the pilot is unacceptable for anyone, man or Superman. We should never intrude on people's privacy and eavesdrop on their personal lives. At this point, Clark doesn't know Luthor's evil. He's got no business listening in. And yet, it's a neat note for the character -- Clark lives as a normal guy and loves being an ordinary person, but in the Pilot, "Strange Visitor" and "I'm Looking Right Through You," he's occasionally using his powers in ways that infringe upon the rights of others. With "Requiem for a Superhero," however, there's a very early scene where Clark obliquely confronts this use of his powers and resolves to stop doing it -- although he has slip-ups throughout the series. It's not something I admire about the character, but it humanizes him significantly.

Interestingly, SUPERMAN RETURNS was also heavily criticized for the 'Stalkerman' scenes where Superman eavesdrops on Lois' personal life with her son and fiance.

I have another thought on the LOIS & CLARK pilot. I said that Dean Cain is a great Clark Kent but a poor Superman and I stand by that -- but LOIS & CLARK does something impressive: it convinces me that Dean Cain is completely unrecognizable as Clark Kent when he takes off his glasses and wears the Superman costume even when, visually and objectively, this is clearly not the case.

It has nothing to do with Cain's performance -- it's instead thanks to pilot director Robert Butler and actress Teri Hatcher. I can't say Butler's direction when filming Superman is the best, but he and the sound designers and music artists make a strong choice: they have the characters in the background fall into hushed silences and adjust the music accordingly.

The aural landscape around Dean Cain's Clark is bustling with noise and activity; when it's a Superman scene, everything goes still. People talk over and around Clark Kent; for Superman, they stop everything and look on in amazement. Butler uses this effect when Superman addresses the colonists and flies Lois into the Daily Planet and it creates a sense of magical wonder.

Then there's Teri Hatcher. When talking to Clark, she's sharp, snappy, curt, dismissive, hostile, irritable, overwrought, angry, upset, and she develops some truly frenetic body language when trying to get Clark out of her way or into his place. When faced with Superman, she becomes still with awe and amazement and she plays Lois with a dreamily besotted enchantment.

So -- the effect is that while I do not believe that Dean Cain's Clark and Superman look different, I believe that Teri Hatcher's Lois believes it, and if Lois believes it, then I can accept that the rest of LOIS & CLARK's cast believes it as well. Teri Hatcher sells this element of suspended disbelief and her performance is so endearing, engaging and amusing that I'm prepared to swallow this ridiculous contrivance in order to enjoy her screen presence.

And this is another aspect of LOIS & CLARK that is truly unique -- no other SUPERMAN production has ever left it to the actress playing Lois to convince the audience that Clark Kent and Superman look unrecognizably different.

Top
#251694 - 04/01/16 09:34 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
I like Bev's idea much better. I wish I would have thought of it a long time ago!
I think it works, especially considering the missing phone call. Clark wants to check in on her, so he calls. When she doesn't answer, he goes to check in on her in person. Bev's right that Clak had his suspicions about Luthor by this point, although nothing is definite yet. However, I don't think it was right for Clark to stick around after Lex left. Again, that's an issue I tie down to Clark being dumb because he's naive and in love for the first time. He makes mistakes, and since he never does it again(I'm going to assume Clark just happened to pass Luthor's window at the end of Barbarians at he Planet :D), he learns from them

Top
#251695 - 04/01/16 09:45 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
Not to get ahead of the podcasts, but the scene in "Requiem for a Superhero" is a turning point where Clark is tempted to use his powers to cheat, but a remark about Superman being a figure of integrity makes him realize he has to be above such petty nonsense. After that, Clark is noticeably more resistant to using his powers to take advantage of people -- although, he gives in now and then.

As for "Barbarians" -- by that point, Clark knows that Luthor has killed anywhere from 20 - 30 people and that's just what Clark's aware of -- meaning Bev's reasoning that Clark isn't stalking Lois but surveilling a dangerous criminal in uncomfortably close proximity to a co-worker is quite reasonable and appropriate.

Luthor's love for Lois is another fascinating aspect of Season 1 in that he genuinely likes and respects Lois and somehow manages to compartmentalize the fact that she would hold him in contemptuous disdain if she knew the truth about him.

Top
#251698 - 04/01/16 10:15 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Another interesting point! I hate to think that Clark took advantage of people a lot - and I'm willing to bet it wasn't all that much - but that's something I'd never observed before in Clark. I knew it was a nice stepping stone in forming Superman, but that's just another way that becoming Superman changes Clark as a whole. I'm just more willing to believe that that particular action was a one time deal.
I like the idea of Superman doing routine checks around Lex's place! Thanks for clearing that up.

Top
#251699 - 04/01/16 11:53 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
To me it fits with the upcoming I've Got A Crush On You episode when Clark blows Lois's cover at the Metro. The guy watches out for her because he knows Lex is a dangerous man.
If he thought for one moment that Lois had an inkling of his connection with Toni Taylor, he, Lex, would have done something to her.
I know there are fans who think he interfered for no good reason but jealousy, but Clark knows how dangerous Lex is. He knew there was a connection of some kind between Lex and Toni from eavesdropping on them. He got Lois out of harm's way as soon as he could. Before Lex became suspicious enough to jump to conclusions. As it was, he went straight to Lois's apartment and found out exactly what she knew and then gave her a story he knew she wouldn't ignore because she had no idea it was all a fabrication.
One reporter's life saved.
Just my take on things. And I do have to say I loved Lex's facade of flirtatious interest as he assures himself Lois knows nothing about his involvement with the Toasters. Even better, at this point Toni Taylor doesn't even know Lex's true nature either! What a complex but downright evil villain! har

Top
#251701 - 04/02/16 08:42 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: ireactions]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
Originally Posted By: ireactions
Not to get ahead of the podcasts, but the scene in "Requiem for a Superhero" is a turning point where Clark is tempted to use his powers to cheat, but a remark about Superman being a figure of integrity makes him realize he has to be above such petty nonsense. After that, Clark is noticeably more resistant to using his powers to take advantage of people -- although, he gives in now and then.

One of my favorite scenes because we learn how important Perry's opinion is to Clark. It matters to him what his boss thinks. It also shows how hard it is to avoid temptation when you can do so much. You don't have to let your father die to show inner conflict. Just play poker at the Daily Planet!
Who and how does he take advantage of people with his powers? I loathe to admit it but I'm coming up blank here.

Top
#251706 - 04/02/16 12:14 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
I don't want to get ahead of Tom and Cory, so I'll just be vague for now. Clark has the advantage of knowing Lois from the perspective of two different identities, so as Superman, when faced with her reverence and awe and overwhelming attraction to him, Superman's also aware of what Lois says about Superman when Superman isn't around -- because Clark has heard every word of it.

It's the equivalent of stalker using a sock puppet to pretend to be a friend to learn more about his victim -- or like that ghastly case where a man created a false online identity to seduce his daughter over the Internet, convinced her to send him nude photos and proceeded to, in his guise of a jilted online lover, threaten her into obeying his sock puppet.

Naturally, Clark never goes that far and in fact actively tries to go in the opposite direction, so there's only a slight element of taking advantage here. When Superman flirts with Lois a bit in "The Neverending Battle" (telling her he's a man just as she's a woman), he's using knowledge of Lois' feelings for him that he gained as Clark.

Very interestingly, Perry declaring that Superman must always be a figure of integrity leads to scenes where Superman is polite to Lois and even acknowledges her interest but starts to create distance only to fail. There is often no way for Superman to avoid interacting with Lois and Superman cannot hide Clark's respect and fondness for her. As a result, Clark is clearly exasperated that Lois is infatuated with his false persona and dismissive of him in his real identity and starts to severely limit his Superman/Lois interaction -- but he can't always maintain the appropriate distance.

In a more straightforward example of using his powers to take advantage of others, "Strange Visitor" has Clark become utterly fed up with Lex Luthor and Lois and use his powers to take them both down a few pegs. Luthor completely has it coming.

Lois... also sort of has it coming, but Clark basically used his powers to humiliate a co-worker instead of, say, calling HR to file a complaint. It's a gray area. Basically, Clark is not perfect. He's a normal guy who happens to be Superman; he experiences frustration and jealousy like anyone else, and the series gets a lot of mileage over how Clark has an impeccable sense of morality but is often put into impossible situations.

There's also Clark getting exclusive interviews and quotes from Superman, which is, for all kinds of reasons, a massive violation of journalistic ethics.

**

Rewatching the episodes -- it's neat to see how Season 1 experiments quite boldly. "The Neverending Battle" has Luthor attacking Superman on a conceptual level. "Strange Visitor" shows Clark threatened by an enemy potentially hitting his secret identity. "I'm Looking Through You" has Clark dealing with a victim/antagonist with whom he identifies strongly. "Requiem for a Superhero" attempts to play it straight and attack Superman physically.

"I've Got a Crush on You" attempts to give Superman a job for Clark Kent. "Smart Kids" is a victim/villain identification episode and "Green Glow" attacks Superman both physically and in terms of his dual identity. They're not all winners, but they show a writing staff clearly trying -- as opposed to simply having Clark throw a villain through a wall every week like that other SUPERMAN show.

Top
#251711 - 04/04/16 08:47 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
New Podcast! http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/

Hurray! Here's my mini-essay in response to "Neverending Battle."

On finding the show: Amazon's streaming service offers Seasons 1 & 4 for $15 each, but Seasons 2 - 3 are $30 each. $90 is a bit much. But I see the DVDs available: Season 1 for $10, Season 2 for $12, Season 3 for $21 and Season 4 for $12. $55 for all four seasons is pretty reasonable. eBay also offers the DVDs at lower rates than Amazon if you do some hunting.

"The Neverending Battle": One of the greatest struggles with writing Superman: he's ridiculously powerful and difficult to antagonize or threaten, especially on a TV budget already straining to depict one superhuman character. Both "The Neverending Battle" and "Strange Visitor" are attempts to figure out how to attack Superman on a weekly basis and both offer great ideas.

Villains: "The Neverending Battle" has Luthor attacking the very concept of Superman; Superman saves people, but Luthor intends to flood Superman's life with counterfeit saves, creating so much junk data Superman won't be able to figure out who's in danger and who isn't. Deborah Joy Levine was asked to create a Superman series as part of her development deal; she saw serious problems with the character and she and her writers approach them with an experimentation and a sincere interest in finding solutions. Luthor has yet to find a way to attack Superman's body, so he turns his malevolence on Superman's spirit.

Tom and Cory definitely enjoyed Luthor's portrayal in this episode. They note that the pogo stick is baffling. It's meant to indicate something about Lex's sex life, which the Pilot also touched upon. A later scene informs us that a cheerleader is waiting on Lex.

They also declared that they would not expect any of Lex's three henchmen to return. One of them actually does! It's Nigel (named Albert in the script), the Englishman. Oh, Nigel.

Generalizations: This episode's strong script has its flaws. In the Pilot, Cory took Levine to task for presenting Chinese food fortune cookies as an authentic part China's cuisine when they were created in Los Angeles and largely absent from restaurants in China. It was a valiant effort stymied by the writer's ignorance and probably a lack of time to conduct research. This wasn't the Internet era when you could Google this stuff.

With "The Neverending Battle," we have Luthor's three henchmen. One is defined as being black, referring to himself as black and indicating that on Planet Levine, all black people are basketball players. One is defined as being a woman who is defined as hating men. One is defined as being British and being aggressively prim and proper. This is an odd instance of malpractice; where Levine took pains to give each character in the Pilot a quirk, she allowed this episode's screenwriter to define two characters by race and gender and the other by accent. God, the 1990s were a tough time.

Repetition: The other massive failing of this episode is an inexplicable inability to trust the audience at a critical point. When Clark is depressed over Luthor having effectively grounded him, Lois tells Clark: "What he can't do -- it doesn't matter. It's the _idea of Superman. Someone to believe in. Someone to build a few hopes around. Whatever he can do -- it's enough."

For some baffling reason, the aired episode proceeds to repeat these previous lines in voiceover for Clark for the benefit of anyone who might have forgotten words that were spoken less than a minute previous. This crushing failure of trust is not in the script; it's clearly been added in the editing stage with no concern for the fact that Teri Hatcher did not deliver her dialogue to work as a disembodied voice and what works coming out of her mouth sounds bizarre as voiceover.

So what we have here is 1990s TV where creators and networks had yet to trust that audiences were sufficiently capable to understand visual storytelling and spoken information without needing to be guided to each and every emotional point. For God's sake.

Lois Lane: Where Lois was unlikable at times in the Pilot, Deborah Joy Levine allows her to be utterly contemptible this week. She steals Clark's story while pretending she's on his side. She struts around the office declaring she and only she should be permitted to write Superman articles. telling Clark he should thank her for having taken advantage of his trust. She attempts to steal a story from Eduardo Friez.

In an interesting contrast to modern shows where anti-social, selfish people tend to be flattered for getting their way, LOIS & CLARK promptly comes down on Lois for her bad behaviour like a ton of bricks, first critically by having Clark look down upon her and then consequentially by deciding to send Lois on a wild goose chase that leaves her covered in sewage and mosquito bites. Throughout this episode, it's only Teri Hatcher's comic timing that keeps Lois from being in any way relatable -- and then in a neat twist reminiscent of Lex in the Pilot, Lois is gracious in defeat and even admires Clark for standing up to her.

Clark: Dean Cain's Superman is no better than in the Pilot. In fact, he's worse. He's given a critical moment of confrontation with Luthor where, in a rage, Superman fires a gun into Luthor's face and catches the bullet just before it strikes. Cain just can't sell the rage here, just as he can't seem to quite connect with Teri Hatcher when playing Superman. I'm supposed to see a godlike figure. I see an actor in a suit he finds uncomfortable with a hairstyle that's not quite right for him delivering dialogue he cannot perform with any conffidence or charisma.

Which makes it all the more strange that Cain's Clark Kent is just superb. From his discomfort during his interrogation to his pranking Lois with exasperation, Cain's Clark is a wellspring of warmth and goodwill. Cain's intense likability easily gets the audience on his side. He has chemistry with every other actor -- his scenes with Lois, Jimmy and Cat are a delight, his fencing with Lois is hilarious.

Most notably, Cain convinces his portraying his frustration with Lois. But it's a low-key, gentle frustration. Cain's Clark doesn't get angry; he gets exasperated -- and when scripted with rage in his scene with Luthor, Cain just can't convince. Cain, from all accounts, is a very gentle, friendly, earnest Clark-like figure. The only difference between the Dean Cain and Clark Kent personas, really, is that Dean Cain had a much more active sex life.

I think what it comes down to is that the Superman suit is not a comfortable set of clothes. Cain is clearly much more at ease in a suit and tie or in his sleeveless casual clothes and with his hair let down. He comes off as an incredibly powerful person who enjoys living among normal people; the clothes give his posture and body language comfort and props to work with, the glasses give him something physical to work with.

A skintight outfit is essentially Dean Cain naked and his performance as Superman has the discomfort of someone who wandered onto a nude beach, stripped and now regrets it.

Humour: Tom remarked when talking about "Strange Visitor" that Superman is barely in this show and that's probably for the best. Tom and Cory also remark that the Lois of the comics in this era had a much harder edge than the frequently goofy, silly character of L&C.

That's simply because LOIS & CLARK is not attempting to be serious adventure fantasy. It's aiming for humour. Curiously, many SUPERMAN comics and films were exceedingly absurd, yet none of them were like LOIS & CLARK because none of them were trying to be a romantic comedy where all the jokes come from character interactions as opposed to extended sequences of farce or bizarre visuals like Superman with a flying dog. Lois is frequently silly, but I have no problem believing that the 90s Lois was silly between panels, silly when we didn't see her.

LOIS & CLARK gives us all the personal, intimate moments between adventures that other comics and films skipped past, like Clark doing his damned laundry or sending Lois on a wild goose chase to a sewage plant. It could easily be cruel; Cain performs it as the outcome of a Superman at his wit's end with Lois and it's hilarious that, as vengeful reprisals go, this is pretty mild.

Next: "Strange Visitor"!

Top
#251722 - 04/06/16 06:03 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
I really liked the way they set this episode up. Luthor's organization is highly amusing, particularly that he has "know thy enemy" on the marquee.

Lois's horrified reaction to herself here tells me that if Lois were to discover Clark equals Superman even this early on, it would stay out of the paper. If she can't bear a stolen story, there's no way she'd be that cruel. I also enjoyed Clark's approach to her out of control behavior. That kind of consequence is exactly what Lois needed, but Clark wasn't smug about it.

I love seeing how inspiring Clark is outside of the suit. By taking down Mad Dog Lane, he's becoming an inspiration to Jimmy through action (if only inadvertently) in addition to his verbal encouragement and belief in him. His powers allow Superman to be a hero, but Clark's courage and goodness affect everyone in the newsroom, too.

I've always loved the dynamics between Lois and Lucy. Lois took care of Lucy on a more parental level, which makes sense. But Lucy in return acted as a support for Lois with her emotional shortcomings. That gives us another good, normal character while giving Lois a much needed confidant. I've always been disappointed that they didn't keep her.

I don't have much to say on Strange Visitor, but I enjoyed your commentary.


Top
#251724 - 04/06/16 07:51 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Metropolis Bound! [Re: AnnieL]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: AnnieL
I've always been disappointed that they didn't keep her.

I don't have much to say on Strange Visitor, but I enjoyed your commentary.



Lucy is def good support for Lois but i was never a big Lucy fan even in the comics. Wasn't she blind in the comics or was for a brief period? I seem to remember her being involved with the Bizarro story back in the 80's but not much more. Though I do remember that they even replace the Lucy actor in the later season for better or worse.

Glad you enjoyed the podcast! We used some of your feedback in our newest episode that will be out on Monday. We record episodes on the day that we release the podcast. So listen for your mention! smile

Top
#251730 - 04/08/16 08:09 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
The one thing about NB that I always noticed was Cat's line to Lois about what happened between Lois and Superman on the space station, but no one else seems to give it any significance. (Well, KateW and I talked about it.)
To me it's an indication that Lois did get to the space station to get her interviews with the colonists and came back with the flight crew when Superman returned the shuttle to Earth. The last part is speculation, but Lois did get to the space station.
Alas, the info means absolutely nothing to anyone but me. My little theory not even noticed- snubbed by no less than two podcasts! (JK, JK) har

I've noticed the two things you mentioned about SV, too: Trask's obsession, or fear, of aliens blinds him to so much that is right in front of his eyes, and the same obsession makes him believe in alien myths with no real basis or proof for the myths. He never sees the clues that Clark might just be Superman- dismissing beeping lie detectors as faulty and fired bullets on the floor of the plane as having missed. But, he has no trouble believing Superman can communicate through telepathy based on Lois teasing remark about not needing to speak aloud with Superman to communicate their feelings to one another.
I've often wondered how he would have reacted to later events in the series, but maybe it was a good thing he never had a chance. Who knows what he would have nuked?

Top
#251731 - 04/08/16 08:36 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
I always figured Lois did go up, but after thinking it over I have my doubts over whether Clark would have let her. I think Cat's line was meant to be more sarcastic, but it's still one of my favorite comment of hers. Is there anything else that points to it?

It's a very good thing Trask doesn't get to see certain later events. That's not to say he was anything short of difficult here, be he could have made Superman's life a lot harder than it is.


Edited by AnnieL (04/08/16 09:03 AM)

Top
#251732 - 04/08/16 08:50 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: BevK]
Jake Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/04/15
Posts: 152
Originally Posted By: BevK
The one thing about NB that I always noticed was Cat's line to Lois about what happened between Lois and Superman on the space station, but no one else seems to give it any significance. (Well, KateW and I talked about it.)


I never thought about that even though I remember the line. It doesnt mention the shuttle or EPRAD but the space station. Its possible. Why not? It's Lois Lane, Daily Planet reporter. LOL! That alone sells it for me. wink

Top
#251733 - 04/08/16 08:57 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: AnnieL]
Jake Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/04/15
Posts: 152
Originally Posted By: AnnieL
I always figured Lois did go up, but after thinking it over I have my doubts over whether Clark would actually let Lois go up there. I think Cat's line was supposed to be more sarcastic, but it's still one of my favorite comments of hers.

It's a very good thing Trask doesn't get to see certain later events. That's not to say he was anything short of difficult here, be he could have made Superman's life a lot harder than it is.


I don't know. CK isn't as connected to her yet. He hasn't seen Mad Dog yet, just a woman he really likes and maybe wants to impress? I would. smile

Top
#251735 - 04/08/16 09:19 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: BevK]
KateW Offline
Clark Defenders United

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 1729
Originally Posted By: BevK
The one thing about NB that I always noticed was Cat's line to Lois about what happened between Lois and Superman on the space station, but no one else seems to give it any significance. (Well, KateW and I talked about it.)
To me it's an indication that Lois did get to the space station to get her interviews with the colonists and came back with the flight crew when Superman returned the shuttle to Earth. The last part is speculation, but Lois did get to the space station.
Alas, the info means absolutely nothing to anyone but me. My little theory not even noticed- snubbed by no less than two podcasts! (JK, JK) har



I feel your pain! I mentioned it to the other guys and it was blown off as a throw away line.
All that thinking for nothing, huh?

Kate wink

Top
#251736 - 04/08/16 01:16 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Yeah, sometimes I wonder why I think so much when there is so little to be gained by it. har

Top
#251741 - 04/09/16 04:06 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
Jake Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/04/15
Posts: 152
LOL! One if those can't win for losing things.

Top
#251758 - 04/12/16 03:21 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
The new episode is up! "I'm Looking Super" covers I'm Looking Through You and Requiem For A Superhero! in which we wonder why was Requiem titled Requiem?

Also, for BevK, we just recorded the next episode as well and did in fact give a little time to "someone's" theory! wink Hear it next week but in the meantime check out this week's! See ya!

Top
#251761 - 04/12/16 10:41 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
KateW Offline
Clark Defenders United

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 1729
OMG! Don't pay attention to us! We make jokes about everything.
Especially Lois.

Kate

Top
#251771 - 04/13/16 05:52 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
"Strange Visitor" is another intriguing episode that's attempting to figure out: how do we threaten Superman? This episode has Bureau 39 and Trask target Superman by investigating him, pursuing leads that threaten the exposure of Clark's secret identity.

Once again, Deborah Joy Levine and her writers experiment with the format and while the episode has its strengths and weaknesses, LOIS & CLARK is clearly engaged with the Superman concept even if the writers are unsure and attempting different things.

This episode really makes it clear that Lois is silly, goofy, flighty, self-centered and in some ways stupid, but she is a force to be reckoned with. Her dying wish being to kiss Clark Kent is ridiculous until it's revealed as a feint. Her infatuation with Superman is hilariously skewered as a shallow crush when working with the sketch artist. She describes Superman's face in mythic, reverential terms and then describes Clark's identical features as bland and mundane.

But then, the closing scene of Superman and Lois indicates that Lois' love for him has depths as well. She tells Superman she respects his mission on Earth to help others, that she's horrified that a black ops division is reacting to Superman with suspicion and violence, and she wants to help him. The scripts do a splendid job of adding weight, dimension and power to Lois' role while still frequently playing her for laughs.

Dean Cain's performance remains a revelation as Clark Kent and an ungodly mess as Superman. Clark's terror during his interrogation is marvellously performed, and the earnest, hopeful wonder at finding artifacts of his spaceship are very well done. He has excellent chemistry with his parents again this week as Jonathan confesses that he did not destroy the spaceship. But when Cain is in costume, it all falls apart. Superman's scene with Lois features another awkward performance; Cain is clearly not comfortable in the costume. He crosses his arms stiffly, he shifts his weight clumsily -- he has no idea how to come alive as Superman even as he makes his performance as Clark truly effortless.

The strange thing is that Cain is so first rate in every scene where he's wearing normal clothes. He plays his scene in Cat's apartment beautifully; he is in no way attracted to her charms, but he likes how she's willing to dress down. His exasperation with Cat spreading rumours about him is hilarious and Cain has a note-perfect reaction when Lois describes his affair with Cat as his only meaningful secret. The vulnerability Cain shows in this episode contrasts well with the small moments in which Clark exhibits his powers, from digging up the hole where the spaceship was thought to be hidden to casually diving out of a plane. He completely makes it work that a god would clock in at the Daily Planet and be afraid of Bureau 39.

However, being a 1990s script, it suffers from poor research as did the Pilot in accidentally declaring fortune cookies to be Chinese. Perry delivers a memorable line to Clark about steering clear of Cat: "If you want to be the king, you gotta listen to the colonel." This quotable line completely fails to account for how Colonel Tom Parker formed a hideously codependent relationship with Elvis in which he overworked the man, ignored Presley's serious drug problems and forced him on a heath-destroying tour schedule while always making sure to pocket more than half of Elvis' earnings for himself. I guess it was harder to Google this stuff in the 90s. I'm a little surprised that Tom, the music guy, didn't call the show out on this.

"I'm Looking Through You" makes another attempt to develop a manner of working Superman and Clark Kent into the story. It's not a huge success, but it's a worthy attempt. For this episode, the writers create a villain/victim of the week with whom Clark strongly identifies. Alan, the invisible man, feels ignored and diminished by his lack of regard, just as Clark feels ignored and diminished by the same. Unfortunately, the story doesn't come together for a variety of reasons.

The first is that Clark never helps Alan with his problem of feeling invisible, nor do their situations line up in any appreciable way. Alan's invisibility is described as a vague detachment; Clark's issue is being overshadowed. Clark and Alan can't connect, nor do their stories sync at all. The second is that our villain of the week is, despite a gruff demeanor, totally unthreatening. Barnes is so undefined by anything except the actor's menace that he never comes off as a threat.

Trask and Luthor nearly broke the concept of Superman; Barnes, at best, offers a nasty scowl. Robbery is simply not a crime that creates any tension or danger for the characters. The episode visibly gives up on trying to build any menace when Lois and Alan get locked in a large vault with the absurd claim that they'll suffocate in two minutes. I'm glad Tom and Cory liked this episode, though.

Lois thinking she can bid on Superman for a date is delightfully delusional and I'm disappointed we don't get to see Superman on his date with the socialite. However, this episode features a few decent Superman moments from Dean Cain. His discomfort during the celebrity date auction works well and there's a certain earnest charm to Superman telling Lois she doesn't need to bid for his attention. There's also a very nice shot of Superman smashing through a wall.

With "Requiem for a Superhero," we have the writers attempting to threaten Superman in the most straightforward fashion -- cybernetically enhanced wrestlers with super strength. This effort is a complete and total failure. LOIS & CLARK attempts superhuman combat in this episode and the budget and direction simply aren't up to it. There is insufficient funding for Superman to be smashed through walls or to exchange blows, so quick resolutions and a humourous Superman finger flick are all that can be done. Dean Cain is hopelessly out of place in the fight scenes, although his defeat of this week's villain with his index finger is extremely funny.

As is normal for this show, Dean Cain puts in a spectacular performance as Clark, especially in the scene where the bullying wrestler attempts to intimidate Clark. Clark is shown to be cringing, retreating, fearful, alarmed -- Lois and the wrestler read it as fear -- and it is, in that Clark is terrified that the wrestler striking him will break the man's hands. Cain finds exactly the right note where the audience knows it's concern for another person while the characters read it as fear of injury.

I really liked Tom and Cory noting, as I felt, that the poker game is the scene where he realizes that Superman stands for something that makes him unwilling to use his powers to take advantage of people. It's weird how it doesn't actually connect to anything else in the episode; the baseball game teaser and the punching bag tag don't seem to connect to the rest of the story as well. It is indeed baffling.

Cory's also right to note how it makes little to no sense that Clark has never previously been invited to a poker game at which the players are... the regular cast. One wonders who it was that cancelled.

Almost as though surrendering on the Superman front, the episode has most of the episode focus on Lois. And it's really nice. The actor playing Dr. Sam Lane has a nice sense of confident detachment; we can see where Lois' solitary singlemindedness comes from; we can also recognize the goofy humour as damage borne of neglect from her father. Dr. Lane is Lois without the jokes, without the pratfalls -- without which Dr. Lane is rigid, cold and indifferent.

This episode is also a brilliant showcase for Lex Luthor, who has what are essentially three monologues where he talks to himself and John Shea makes it into a convincing conversation. The scripting is sharp and nuanced, identifying how Lex's egotism and self-absorbed nature know no limits -- he has a man murdered and describes it as disappointing because it reflects a lack of imagination on his part. Also unnerving is how Luthor, despite his obvious regard for Lois, has no compulsion about endangering her father or engineering situations where Lois has a gun put to her head.

The way Luthor compartmentalizes his internal thoughts to excuse or justify himself is on the razor edge of total sanity and total insanity. It is a tribute to how LOIS & CLARK's writers are consistently excellent. They may not make excellent episodes, but that is due to the challenges of writing for an invulnerable protagonist rather than any shortage of imagination, talent or commitment to the series.

I also love Tom and Cory noting that Lois poisons her plant with coffee.

Top
#251776 - 04/14/16 09:34 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
To me the nagging thing about Requiem For A Superhero is how Lois seems to choose which events in her life to remember with fondness and which to dismiss as painful or insignificant.
For example: she has a prodigious knowledge of boxing lore and she is close enough to Allie Dinello to have earned the nickname "Pumpkin" from him. Wouldn't this mean she spent a lot of time at the gym when she was young? How did she get there? Her father must have taken her to work with him quite a bit while she was growing up, and let her hang out with Dinello and the fighters while he was working.
At some point she and her father had a closer relationship than she is letting on, or choosing to remember.

Originally Posted By: ireactions
There's also a very nice shot of Superman smashing through a wall.


A fun bit is the actor Jim Beaver, a Superman fan, kept a piece of the broken wall as a souvenir. Zoom's Interview With Beaver


Edited by BevK (04/14/16 09:49 AM)

Top
#251780 - 04/14/16 11:33 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
PMC12= Paula, a mom whose kids are now calling her Mr. PMC12.

Top
#251781 - 04/14/16 01:56 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
har Paula, I've been there, too. It's a mistake that can only be made once.

Top
#251784 - 04/14/16 09:44 PM Re: New!! Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 3 I'm Looking Super! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Bev makes a great point. It's really hard to know, because we only have Lois's POV. Although Sam also doesn't deny a whole lot of what she accuses.
I'm betting that Lois did have a good relationship with Sam at one point. While his behavior seems to have been consistent throughout her childhood, it's also something that doesn't do damage right away. It takes time. Since Lois was trying to please him as she got older, I don't see why she couldn't have been going to the gym in an attempt to grow closer to Sam. After all, she was the one doing the pushing away, and she didn't appear to give up on him until later. I would guess that (in addition holding a little bit more of a grudge than she should) she doesn't really mention anything because compared to everything as a whole, Sam's hurtful behavior was the most consistent and impactful. That's my best guess, anyway. confused

I like the new format.
I've always been disappointed that we never got to see how Superman's date went.
Requiem is my favorite episode for Lex, but it also makes me want to turn him into a punching bag. Clark should have used him instead of the boxing equipment.

Top
#251785 - 04/15/16 07:48 AM Re: New!! Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 3 I'm Looking Super! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Or the divorce, maybe? After he left he would/could have become more immersed in his work, which could have been interpreted as cold and distant to a lonely daughter? (Obviously, I'm referring to this Sam Lane only, and what we know of him from this episode.)
Click to reveal..
That's another thing that really irks me: at this point we don't know about the infidelity and alcoholism. That suddenly appears in the third season with the introduction of different actors to play the older Lanes, and it more or less, IMO, makes the whole RFAS episode meaningless.

Top
#251797 - 04/17/16 08:30 PM Re: New!! Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 3 I'm Looking Super! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
I got a little ahead of the Rewatch Podcast and saw "Man of Steel Bars" -- and Dean Cain's Superman performance is *really* different in this episode! He finds a new approach to the character and it really, really works. I don't remember if he keeps it up for the rest of the series or if something about courtroom sets just brings out the best in Dean's acting.

**

The failure to maintain the actors who played Lois' parents (and to keep her very funny sister in the mix) is really unfortunate. It's part of why when Tom and Cory said that they were excited to review a show with strong continuity, I started laughing uncontrollably.

Still, there is something to be said for how Lois' dad in future episodes is still in robotics.

Top
#251798 - 04/17/16 09:06 PM Re: New!! Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 3 I'm Looking Super! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39

I definitely think that had an impact, too, Bev.
That's what I was talking about, ireactions smile I don't remember if it holds up completely, since I never paid incredible attention to that particular detail, but I think it gets at least a little better consistently.

Click to reveal..
You can get by with Lucy and Ellen's changes, but Sam really gets destroyed. I always hated that; I liked Lois having a somewhat normal family. Jimmy's dad feels more like Dr. Lane than Dr. Lane does later on.

Top
#251799 - 04/18/16 09:11 AM Re: New!! Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 3 I'm Looking Super! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Quote:
Still, there is something to be said for how Lois' dad in future episodes is still in robotics.

They did keep that aspect, but...
Click to reveal..
even his work with robotics is changed. Initially he was dedicated to making the best possible replacements for damaged joints and lost limbs. Later he just wants to make life sized robots. (Not that we can't have fun with that if we want to. smile )

I also liked the original Lucy, who was funny, but also as strong and independent as Lois, and not one bit afraid of her as she is after the actress change. I like the closeness, too, that they had in the first season, as evidenced by Lois's 'fly or invisible' game she and Lucy used to play. The love and closeness she feels for her sister is very evident.

Top
#251801 - 04/18/16 10:25 AM Re: New!! Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 3 I'm Looking Super! [Re: tom2point0]
KateW Offline
Clark Defenders United

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 1729
Yeah, new actress, new attitudes from both sisters.
RFAS Sam Lane is my favorite of the two Sams. I loved how Lois was just like him but didn't realize it and probably would have argued no way was she anything like him! (Bam! Pow! "Take that back, you hick!")
I would like to think that before he 'died,' Lex found Sam and injected him with Mentamide 6 and destroyed his mind, but Lois's and Ellen's memories change, too, so I can't blame Lex. Just a new team of writers with no sense of continuity.

Kate

Top
#251809 - 04/19/16 10:24 AM Re: New!! Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 3 I'm Looking Super! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
New episode is up! It's called "I Got Smart" in which Cory laments child actors and how much he adores them! wink

Top
#251811 - 04/19/16 07:27 PM Re: New!! Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 3 I'm Looking Super! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
Regarding "I've Got a Crush on You": Tom and Cory had an interesting discussion about Clark's performance as the drunk and angry sailor, Charles King. The script has Clark behaving in an aggressive, volatile, brusque and caustic fashion. The aired version has Dean Cain delivering the dialogue with Cain's usual warmth. Tom and Cory considered that it might be a deliberate acting choice; that Clark is a bad actor. I'm afraid I don't think that's the case; I think Dean Cain flat out failed.

Cain is not ungifted. People often declare that an actor is only playing himself as though creating naturalism requires no ability. At this stage, Cain had enthusiasm and talent. What he lacked was experience and skill, which some actors develop through working a lot and learning as they go (Tom Welling) and some actors develop through taking classes (Christopher Reeve). At this stage of his career, Cain plays scenes as himself. When he's playing Clark Kent, it's perfect because the only difference between the Clark Kent persona and the real-life Dean Cain is that Clark Kent is a virgin. When Cain needs to play a terse, angry guy, however, the performance doesn't work.

The script is very clear: Cain is supposed to inhabit the Charles King role completely, just as in the early Superman comics, Superman would impersonate miners and day labourers and other working class individuals to investigate villains. None of the dialogue in the aired version is altered to indicate that Clark is having trouble maintaining the role; in fact, Toni's reaction to him requires that Cain be completely convincing as Charles King. Clark throwing Lois into food refuse is meant to, in the script, indicate how deeply in character he's being.

And Cain can't pull it off. It's just embarrassing. Charles King says angry things, but he says them with Dean Cain's polite gentleness. It doesn't work. Toni should see right through him. These are all the same problems with Cain's Superman performance; he isn't comfortable playing a more forceful personality, he isn't at ease dominating scenes, he isn't convincing when taking charge. He's a great Clark Kent, but he can't seem to shift from Clark to a different identity.

It's at this point that I completely gave up on Cain ever being more than Clark Kent -- although, looking ahead, I just watched "Man of Steel Bars" and there is a quantum leap forward in Dean Cain's acting, so he was very clearly working very hard to close the experience gap between where he was when hired and where he needed to be to play Clark Kent and Superman.

In terms of the series development, this episode is neat in that it doesn't really attempt to work with Superman much and focuses on putting the Lois and Clark partnership in a bizarre situation of undercover identities and unfortunate 'betrayals' and amusing jealousies. It really works.

The Toasters aren't remotely dangerous to Superman, but they also don't need to be. The Toni character is super-sympathetic until we find out she's behind all the arsonists and Cain's performance really works in portraying his disappointment in her. Unfortunately, Cain's acting as Charles King is so clumsy it's unclear if Clark actually liked Toni or not. The Lex/Lois storyline advances some more this week and it's almost sweet except for the fact that Lex is a monstrosity of a human being.

All in all, I feel this is a really well-constructed script that sidesteps the need to threaten Superman by engineering a challenging situation for our two leads and their friendship, unfortunately let down by Dean Cain's shortcomings at this point in his career. This doesn't change the fact that Cain's natural warmth and charisma as Clark Kent is what makes L&C very special. Kevin Sorbo might have been a more convincing Superman and Charles King, but I don't know if he could make me believe he'd take any crap from Lois, whereas Cain makes me believe it because he clearly thinks Lois is funny.

*****

"Smart Kids" is an attempt to do the template "I'm Looking Through You" originated -- an episode where Superman identifies with the antagonist/victim. In this case, it's about power -- the kids gain power through the smart-drug but have no inhibitions or intelligence in applying their power.

Lois has terrific chemistry with Aimee throughout and L&C continues to highlight how Lois is both a driven and capable journalist and a perpetual screwup who gets in over her head, ending up tied to a chair by a child. I'd say where this episode falls apart, child actors aside, is that Superman's discussion with Phillip doesn't really ring true.

Superman says he'd like to be normal as though he doesn't enjoy fixing his miserable apartment in ten seconds of flying out to Italy and China whenever the mood suits him or flirting with Lois while she ignores Clark.

The odd thing is that the script has a passage missing from the aired version that completely sells Superman's point of view: Superman points out a child in the park flying a kite, moving with the wind and against it. Phillip points out he'd never make such an error on the smart drug, but Superman points out that he also wouldn't even bother trying to fly the kite and miss out on his personal growth.

With that, Superman's own journey connects to Phillip's as he too, grew up with his powers gradually and slowly and learned how to apply them effectively, as we saw in the Pilot and the earlier episodes. By cutting this exchange, the episode has no idea what it's saying about kids and the children.

Tom wondered what the hell was the deal with the pig. The pig is Aimee's pet, at least in the script -- I guess that exposition was reduced in editing to the point where it wasn't clear?

Luthor's cold blooded poisoning of the doctor both bothered me and didn't in that the doctor was a child-exploiting piece of trash who got the kids (psychologically) addicted to a dangerous substance, but it was alarming to see Lex gleefully destroying the man's mind, especially when in previous episodes, he confessed that it always bothered him to 'remove' people.

Courtney Peldon put in a great performance as Aimee, mirroring Lois' punchy defiance while being extremely sympathetic. She's had quite a career since then -- although I saw her photo on IMDB and it was absolutely terrifying.

Peldon's altered nose looks skeletally misproportioned to the rest of her face and the breast implants just look awful on her frame. I don't think I would be able to take her seriously today as any character other than a surgically mutilated Hollywood actress. I wish she hadn't done this. She was/is really talented and very attractive as a girl next door type; she didn't need to make herself into a ridiculous pinup model.

The fact that most of her work since the surgeries consists of voice acting would suggest that she was better off focusing on her talent.

Top
#251822 - 04/20/16 11:52 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: BevK]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Originally Posted By: BevK
The one thing about NB that I always noticed was Cat's line to Lois about what happened between Lois and Superman on the space station, but no one else seems to give it any significance. (Well, KateW and I talked about it.)



Has it really been that long since the last flight of the space shuttles? The teacher in me refuses to believe we've forgotten how they worked. har
In real life, the shuttles were reusable ships that returned to Earth after visiting the ISS or Hubble telescope back in the day.
If Superman, in his universe, could lift the reusable ship into space, he could bring it back, too, and return it to the exact place from which he lifted it within hours or a day which seems to be what happened in the show. The colonists went to the space station to stay for years, but not the flight crew, who returned in the shuttle which is designed to reenter the Earth's atmosphere under it's own power or not.
Of course, once Superman brought the shuttle back, he was the hot news everyone wanted to read about and Lois's interviews with the colonists were Sunday supplement material compared to that guy who flew them up and back. She had a heck of an exclusive on that, too.
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

Top
#251823 - 04/21/16 12:42 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
Jake Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/04/15
Posts: 152
All they lost was their launch window, right?, but with his speed Superman could take the shuttle straight to the space station, dock and unload the people and cargo and bring it right back and still have time to take Lois home to change clothes and take her to the newsroom.
I'd say it's possible.

Top
#251824 - 04/21/16 10:13 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
hugefan Offline
Jimmy Olsen

Registered: 09/15/08
Posts: 5
One of the things that I thought about when watching season one over again was that I couldn't freaking believe that Lois was so darn clueless to what kind of man Lex was! She seemed so smart in other aspects that I would have expected her to see through him, but she allowed him to outsmart her and pull the wool over her eyes at every turn, it seems. It honestly makes me feel sorry for her. Ace reporter gets conned just like all the other kids (except Clark).

Top
#251827 - 04/22/16 07:36 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 2 Neverending Planet [Re: tom2point0]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
Like everyone else in Metropolis, all she saw was what he wanted them to see. Man of the year five years in a row? All she/they ever saw was the charming humanitarian. Nearly the perfect villain.

Top
#251833 - 04/23/16 12:12 PM Re: A BRAND NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 4 I Got Smart [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Lex worked by causing a problem and openly fixing it. In that way, he was a savior to Metropolis on numerous accounts-and why would anyone suspect the savior of the problem? For Lois, he worked on more of a personal level, in places where he knew she was softer, such as her father. Whatever skepticism she had of him from being a great reporter was completely eliminated.


Edited by AnnieL (04/23/16 01:22 PM)

Top
#251834 - 04/24/16 10:07 AM Re: A BRAND NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 4 I Got Smart [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
When you think about it, Lex manipulated the entire first season's events. It's amazing to me the writing was so consistent and I have to say again: Deborah Joy Levine created my favorite Superman universe characters, including Lex and his lackeys. He didn't really have any henchman as he never considered any one of them as his equal in any way.
Maybe men she felt a connection to emotionally were Lois's only blind spot. She never saw Clark for what he was either, during that time. I hate to think Lex had that much influence on her way of thinking. He couldn't influence her feelings for Superman, but for Clark? I hope it was limited only to the time after taking over the newspaper, after, and just before, she agreed to marry him.

Top
#251837 - 04/26/16 01:19 AM Re: A BRAND NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 4 I Got Smart [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
A NEW episode of the Rewatch Podcast is up! Episode 5, Glow Home, Man! Check it out now!

And byyyyyyyy the way... we would LOVE your reviews over in iTunes. It helps people find the podcast and such so if you have a moment..... Click the link and write us a review?

Rewatch Podcast by Rewatch Podcast
https://itun.es/us/ooQl5.c

Top
#251847 - 04/27/16 07:17 PM Re: A BRAND NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 4 I Got Smart [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
Nice podcasts. Definitely liking the new format of splitting the A-plots and the B-plots. With "Green Glow," we have another episode where the villain attacks Superman's secret identity. Regrettably, Trask gets killed off, depriving the series of a highly effective villain besides Lex Luthor.
The gold robber and the Toasters weren't exactly intimidating whereas Trask was an enemy who aimed for Superman but kept hitting Clark Kent. Admittedly, once Trask learned the secret, there was little hope for his continued existence.

Tom and Cory took issue with Eddie Jones' performance in that when Clark says he feels stranges, makes agonized noises and collapses, Jonathan Kent keeps looking at the Kryptonite instead reacting and turning to look at Clark.

The problem isn't Jones' acting; it's the editing. There is an awkward time jump between Clark saying, "I'm kind of feeling strange" and Jonathan saying, "My God, you think it could be this?"

There was an extra moment between there in the script where Jonathan sees Clark fall over and exclaims, "Are you sick?" and as Clark says, "Maybe -- ? I guess?" Jonathan was to turn to the Kryptonite and exclaim, "My God, do you think it's this thing?"

In order to make the commercial break in time, Jonathan's initial reaction was trimmed and from what I can tell, it looks like "My God, you think it could be this?" was overdubbed to a slightly calmer delivery in post so that Jonathan freaking out over Clark's collapse would have more surprise behind it.

... so, yes. You leave Eddie Jones' acting ability out of this, boys. I mean it!

Tom's irritation over Lois and Clark dancing and enjoying the corn festival over an obviously under duress phone call from Wayne Irig is hilarious. I was a bit confused, however, that Tom ran through most of the deleted scenes, ran through the plot with Cory in their discussion -- but then described Sherman's deleted scenes afterwards. It's fine, but I wondered why that was held back.

Tom and Cory also wondered what Sherman's deal is and why someone so lacking in ruthless killer instinct works for Bureau 39. She doesn't. It's clearly established that she is indeed a US Environmental Protection Agency officer who was assigned to the Smallville cleanup only to find Trask in position as her superior. ("Since when does the EPA do interrogations?!" "It doesn't. Bureau 39 does.")

In this scene, Trask effectively declares that Sherman has been drafted into his black-ops division, which must have manipulated the paperwork and blackmailed or bribed well-placed administrators to set up an EPA operation which Bureau 39 then co-opted for their own purposes.

****

Tom and Cory said that in their view, LOIS & CLARK has continuity because it has multi-episode arcs. Quite true. My amusement towards them saying they were eager to do a show with a better sense of continuity than SLIDERS was based on Cory remarking that LOIS & CLARK must have had a series bible and template it stuck to for all four seasons.

This is simply not the case. While Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher are in every episode, Seasons 2 - 4 are a almost a new SUPERMAN show that happens to use most of the existing cast of LOIS & CLARK. The Season 1 style is abandoned, and it's not like BUFFY where the characters moved to a new stage of life or ANGEL where the writers found a new approach to scripts.

It's actually arguable that Season 2 - 4 have no template and the show is tugged and torn at the whims of various forces with a showrunner drifting aimlessly due to the random demands of a destructive network.

It doesn't matter now, but basically, the things that make the Season 1 *scripts* special are downplayed and diminished in later years. Because Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher stayed on, there's a visual consistency, but there's also the sense of Seasons 2 - 4 hitting problems that Season 1 had already run into and solved.

**

Regarding the inability to use Lana Lang -- I would say that Tom's summary was (by necessity) a simplified version of a pretty complex situation (and I didn't have the full information for him at the time, either). Legally, Superboy was created for DC with the agreement that he was subject to separate licensing from Superman.

The Salkinds, when selling off their SUPERMAN TV and movie rights to Cannon, took the view that they retained the rights to the Superboy character. They used these rights to develop the eventually successful SUPERBOY series with Viacom.

Warner Bros. eventually bought the rights from Cannon, then took the view that the rights for Superboy had not been sold separately to the Salkinds and initiated court proceedings to end the SUPERBOY series, partially because they wanted their character back and partially because they wanted to produce their own SUPERMAN TV series without SUPERBOY competing. The Salkinds were forced to shut SUPERBOY down even as they kept fighting WB in court -- and due to the ongoing legal action, LOIS AND CLARK could not use Lana Lang or Pete Ross, both considered part of the Superboy license.

Eventually, the Salkinds and WB settled and Lana Lang would appear in a later episode of L&C and on SMALLVILLE. There were further legal disputes between the Shuster and Siegal estates over Superboy (again, a separate character) that led to the Superboy character being temporarily removed from the DC comic books until the situation changed.

I'll talk about "Man of Steel Bars" later.

Top
#251848 - 04/27/16 11:59 PM NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 5 Glow Home, Man! [Re: ireactions]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: ireactions

I was a bit confused, however, that Tom ran through most of the deleted scenes, ran through the plot with Cory in their discussion -- but then described Sherman's deleted scenes afterwards. It's fine, but I wondered why that was held back


We will definitely talk about some of this in the "Previously" part of our podcast, but as far as Sherman's deleted scene goes, the reason it was held back till later was because very simply I forgot all about it! I had skipped over it accidentally while recording and rather than go back and edit it in where it should have been we just left it there. My bad!

Top
#251864 - 05/02/16 08:08 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 5 Glow Home, Man! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
"Man of Steel Bars." This is another one of those episodes where the villain (Lex) attacks Superman on a conceptual level. Superman saves people -- but what if his actions actually condemn Metropolis in the long run? The writers come up with a brilliant twist on Superman absorbing solar energy to turn it into a public relations nightmare.

Teri Hatcher plays Lois' grief and agony over Superman's situation is heartbreaking and her abortive dinner with Superman in Clark's apartment is a high point of her comedic acting. Dean Cain's sadness at leaving town is truly upsetting -- and what's more impressive is how Cain has found a new approach to playing Superman.

In the courtroom scenes, Cain plays Superman with a confident formality that is totally absent from his previous episodes. The courtroom scene seems to shift Cain's performance and Superman's demeanor where he's addressing the judge in the course of a legal proceeding.

Superman speaks to the judge with a dignified respectfulness -- he is highly courteous without being fawning or obsequious in any way. It's with this scene that Cain suddenly gets a handle on how to (a) characterize Superman and (b) distinguish him from Clark.

The formal, courteous respect Superman shows towards the judge is present in every subsequent Superman scene with every other character -- the police officers, the cellmates, Lois at Clark's apartment and even the angry boy. In contrast, Clark is far more casual and laid back; he cracks jokes, he laughs at Lois' absurdities, he gets annoyed and irritated while Superman always retains an air of cordial ceremony.

It is incredibly subtle, but it's something Dean Cain plays beautifully in the scene of Superman in Clark's apartment, as he emerges wearing glasses and Clark's hairstyle in the Superman costume, nervous and unsure -- and then wets his hair, sweeps it back, and addresses Lois with decorous graciousness.

On every level, "Man of Steel Bars" is a revelation; it has a strong means of antagonizing both Clark Kent and Superman and it has Dean Cain finally figuring out what the hell to do with Superman.

Top
#251865 - 05/03/16 01:46 AM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 5 Glow Home, Man! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
It's a new episode! Episode 6 of the Rewatch Podcast is out and ready for YOU! Yes, you. And you too!

Get Lovely Honeymoon here http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-05-02T16_17_44-07_00 or get subscribed in iTunes like a good lil boy and girl!



Top
#251895 - 05/10/16 05:29 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 5 Glow Home, Man! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
"Pheremone" and "Honeymoon," more than any other pair of episodes so far, really double down on LOIS AND CLARK as SUPERMAN in the romantic comedy genre. It's not for everyone. The romcom genre operates on certain comforting untruths and making absurdly public displays of private moments -- but L&C has a certain advantage in doing a romcom in long-form via episodic television.

Cory notes that "Honeymoon"'s plot of the Tsunami defense system and Apocalypse consulting is near-irrelevant. It doesn't matter in the slightest. It's simply an excuse for putting Lois and Clark in an physically awkward situation, just as the plot of "Pheremone" is an excuse for an emotionally awkward situation.

"Pheremone," more than any previous episode, commits L&C entirely to comedy. There is no pretense of doing a Christopher Reeve heroic fantasy or a Tim Burton exercise in stylized surrealism. Lois dashing towards Clark in slow motion and Perry doing an Elvis impression -- it's clearly all about the laughs now, but the laughs are never contemptuous or mocking.

It's noticeable that the energy of both episodes actually drops a bit when Superman enters the situation, removing attention from the romcom material.

Interestingly, these two episodes are the kind of episodes to which ABC and the reviewers at the time objected to the most. Season 1 of L&C was heavily rebuked by network executives, fans and reviewers for being a show where Superman made only cameo appearances. This was, of course, entirely the point, but the marketing of the series as a superhero show with romantic elements did L&C no favours.

Tom and Cory noted that some retooling appeared to be taking place behind the scenes with a new producer, Robert Singer. Robert Singer is in some ways loathed as the David Peckinpah of LOIS & CLARK, but that's altogether too simplistic and unfair. In hindsight, it's clear that the romcom approach to the show was a creative success; at the time, the romcom approach was, outside of diehard L&C fans, seen as severely misguided and Singer was seen as someone who would comply with the network's wishes for a more action-adventure approach where Deborah Joy Levine was defiant to the end of Season 1.

The effects aren't visible in "All Shook Up," which, despite being far from the romcom format, is a pretty terrific episode. Bryce Zabel puts Clark in the impossible position of losing his memories with impending doom descending from the skies above. Dean Cain puts in an amazing performance as the amnesiac Clark, losing both the polite formality of Superman and the easy confidence of Clark, playing a positively Quinn Mallory-esque uncertainty and confusion. Cory and Tom really captured the strengths of this episode.

However, "Witness" suggests that something has gone terribly wrong behind the scenes -- a situation of which I have no specific knowledge for this particular episode. "Witness" feels like a freelance script that maybe the incoming new producer and showrunner had no time to review and went to filming without sufficient revisions.

Writer Bradley Moore has no other TV or film credits besides this episode and the entire script reflects a painful ignorance of the series its in. Clark is written as though he doesn't have superspeed in several scenes, most glaringly when just barely preventing Lois' murder in her own home. Cat Grant declares that Lois is a paragon of competence and perfection which is painfully at odds with Lois' lack of personal life and consistently flustered demeanor and often pitiful paranoia and insecurity. The male potency joke is painfully out of place for the family drama of previous episodes.

The only scene that really rings true is Lois being pleased to find Superman as her bodyguard. And the weird thing is, the plot is perfectly suited to L&C -- not the stupid rainforest plot that is as meaningless as the Tsunami plot of "Honeymoon."

There's a great idea here: Superman has to protect Lois from an assassin who is a master of disguise, someone Superman's supersenses can't identify. So we'd have an episode of Lois in a paranoid state and Clark struggling to learn how to look past disguises and compare faces and note discrepancies while Lois suspects every single person in her life of being the killer in disguise.

It's a brilliant romcom plot. Except the pointless and stupid focus on the convoluted plot that is of no importance whatsoever reduces Superman and Lois's difficulties to a footnote. This script has not been properly revised by the production.

(I think. Just speculating.)

Top
#251911 - 05/14/16 12:00 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 5 Glow Home, Man! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
I've been so busy I haven't had time to post but there is indeed a NEW episode up!

Episode 7 of the Rewatch Poccast: Shook Up Witness!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-05-09T17_32_48-07_00

Cory and Tom try to hold their breath for 20mins and hide in plain sight! Go get it!

Top
#251912 - 05/14/16 12:06 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 5 Glow Home, Man! [Re: ireactions]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: ireactions

It's noticeable that the energy of both episodes actually drops a bit when Superman enters the situation, removing attention from the romcom material.

Tom and Cory noted that some retooling appeared to be taking place behind the scenes with a new producer, Robert Singer. Robert Singer is in some ways loathed as the David Peckinpah of LOIS & CLARK, but that's altogether too simplistic and unfair.

Dean Cain puts in an amazing performance as the amnesiac Clark, losing both the polite formality of Superman and the easy confidence of Clark, playing a positively Quinn Mallory-esque uncertainty and confusion. Cory and Tom really captured the strengths of this episode.


I do agree that when Superman appears there is a change in feel. Never really noticed it before the Rewatch though. And as far as the big change that's coming, I have to admit, there are many moments coming that I loved in the next few seasons. There's a lot I didn't like as well, but several storylines are in the back of mind, just waiting to be refreshed. I know they do move towards action more which went against the rom com idea, but i never hated it the way I absolutely hated what happened to Sliders.

Oh and yes, now that you mention it, Dean was Quinn-esque in that episode!

Top
#251931 - 05/16/16 05:38 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 5 Glow Home, Man! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
Ah. Robert Singer.

What follows is a lot of theorizing and may be wrong -- but to jump ahead to Season 2 -- the situation is complicated. It is very easy for fans to see the name "Robert Singer" at the end of episodes they hated and declare him to be responsible.

I would say that Seasons 2 - 4 suffer from the inability to learn from Deborah Joy Levine's Season 1. There's too much emphasis on villains. Season 1 knew to use the Daily Planet to get Lois and Clark into stories; the latter seasons seem to forget this by introducing one silly antagonist after another and giving each one a quirk and a gimmick rather than focusing on the leads.

There's also a shift in the show's humour; where the jokes in Season 1 are from Lois and Clark's bizarre relationship and Clark's secret, the jokes in Seasons 2 - 4 are all too often about the exaggerated, absurd behaviour of guest-characters (again, villains).

And finally, there's a lack of vision where, because of all these ill-advised changes, Lois and Clark spend less time onscreen together because of the desire to flesh out the villains.

Seasons 2 - 4 feel like a version of LOIS & CLARK where there is no clear vision (romcom? Action adventure? Office drama? Dramedy?), so there's a lot of random elements and odd emphases that don't add up to a cohesive whole. Imagine a version of "Honeymoon" where instead of focusing on Lois and Clark as roommates, it's focused on the Tsunami plot and the villains' concerns. That's the problem with Seasons 2 - 4. Robert Singer is blamed for all of this.

But the truth is that every TV show is the product of numerous hands, opinions, directives and mandates from the studio, the network, the financiers and the circumstances. Like SLIDERS, LOIS & CLARK was not a ratings spectacular. The network wanted changes to bring in a larger audience.

When Levine protested and refused, ABC fired her. They also fired Tracy Scoggins and Michael Landes. According to Lane Smith (Perry), this created an on-set environment of fear where the producers were now afraid to resist the network's directives when the series creator and two regulars had lost their jobs.

Unlike SLIDERS, LOIS & CLARK's retooled production team were eager to do quality material, but they were wrestling with demands from a network that wanted a superhero show and didn't understand the romcom format. Singer facilitated these changes (hence the dislike towards him), but he often did not originate them.

My read on Singer -- and this is strictly opinion -- is that he is not a writer or a visionary storyteller. He's a very practical-minded director and producer -- locations, special effects, blocking, shot composition, editing, sets -- he's the sort of guy who observes that you can save money on wirework by having Dean Cain throw his cape in front of the camera and putting in the whoosh sound effect to indicate Superman has flown away.

Deborah Joy Levine had a very specific vision for L&C as the romantic comedy, and she fought for it. Singer, in contrast, prioritized keeping L&C on the air and in the network's good graces and keeping what was left of his people employed. If, in the course of making sure he preserved everyone's jobs, there was the opportunity to make a good TV show, he would take that opportunity. If he had to choose between pleasing the network or making a good TV show, he would please the network.

Singer is ultimately not someone with a creative vision that he will battle to see aired; he instead manages all the directives and star needs and writers' suggestions and accepts all the notes and then attempts to execute them in a professional manner that follows each note even when the notes are contradictory or counter-productive. This results in the odd mis-mash of Seasons 2 - 4 -- and once again, Singer should not be blamed for mandates from ABC executives Les Moonves, Brian McAndrews, etc.. Singer's attitude was/is to act as a peacemaker.

This reputation for being a steady hand and a pleasant personality won Singer his current role on SUPERNATURAL. SUPERNATURAL was written and directed by an untested young talent, Eric Kripke. The studio and network decided to assign Singer to work with Kripke, Singer describing himself as "an old fart" who would offer "an experienced hand to guide the young man through these rocky waters."

This had previously been attempted on LOIS & CLARK and failed (pairing a visionary firebrand with a more diplomatic producer) -- but it worked on SUPERNATURAL; Kripke and Singer developed a strong partnership and Singer remained a partner to every subsequent showrunner on SUPERNATURAL. It helped that shows the 2000s were more showrunner driven than network driven.

As the co-executive producer on SUPERNATURAL, Singer applied his practical experience to make sure scripts and arcs where achievable onscreen and that writers kept the two lead characters in the same scene as often as possible and helped work out what monsters could be done on a TV budget and how Vancouver could masquerade as a different town every week -- but all the philosophical underpinnings and character depth and ongoing arcs ultimately came from the writers whom Singer partnered.

I don't get the sense that Singer was filled with vision and ideas, but he was superbly capable in facilitating great ideas serving grand visions -- and getting them filmed and aired on time and underbudget. On LOIS & CLARK, the main source of ideas (Levine) was fired and Singer could only manage what ideas ABC would let him use.

In recent years, the whole attitude of managing a show from the network's end has also changed because showrunners are a lot more visible and networks are keen to market a show based on the showrunner. And on SUPERNATURAL, Singer is a spokesperson for the show and he helps manage the writing to make sure it's filmable, but the writing is ultimately led by his co-producer.

So, was Singer a bad producer for LOIS & CLARK? I think he was as good as he was allowed to be. Paired with Deborah Joy Levine, he did great; fire her and Singer was, as a Bond-villain might say, "A kite dancing in a hurricane." But, because his name is at the end, he's blamed for everything. It is unfair.

I would have been glad for a man like Robert Singer to have run Season 3 of SLIDERS as opposed to say, David Peckinpah.

Top
#251936 - 05/17/16 05:54 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast L&C: Ep 5 Glow Home, Man! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
With "Illusions" and "Ides," we have two episodes under the new showrunner, Robert Singer, with Deborah Joy Levine still attempting to lead the show. What we have here is LOIS & CLARK being pulled in two separate and opposing directions -- the action-adventure stories that ABC wants and the romantic comedy stories that Levine wants, with Singer attempting to find some middle ground that won't see everyone fired.

With "Illusions," we have Superman fighting a magician and battling illusions and hypnosis, none of which are threats that can be addressed through superstrength or superspeed. With "Ides," we have Superman fighting computers. Once again, there's some neat ideas here with coming up with threats that Superman cannot punch into submission.

We also have some intriguing interpersonal conflicts: Lois hates magic and wants to debunk it while Clark enjoys magic tricks, Clark thinks the convicted felon is a murderer but Lois is sure he's not. "Honeymoon" was an example of how the plot was simply a device to put Lois and Clark in a difficult situation and the focus was specifically on the two characters.

With "Illusions" and "Ides," we have the opposite -- the focus is on the evil plot of the week -- and the result is overwhelming mediocrity. As interesting as it is to see how the magic tricks are performed, it pales to Lois and Clark's conflict over magic which is confined to one scene. As superficially intriguing as it may be to work out how Eugene was framed for murder, Eugene is not as interesting as Lois and Clark being on opposite sides while in the same scene.

These guest-stars simply aren't as engaging because we haven't gotten to know them over many weeks and they're not sticking around. There are flares of L&C's romcom roots, but they're being downplayed severely in these two episodes as Singer struggles to find some way to bring Levine's ideas to life in stories ABC would appreciate.

Interestingly, Singer and Levine seem to finally hit the right note with "Foundling," "The Rival," "Fly Hard" and the season finale two-parter, but right now, they're struggling. "Ides" is particularly disappointing because there is no onscreen reason offered for why Lois thinks Eugene is innocent or why Clark is so sure he's not -- which leaves it completely arbitrary and unexplained why Clark is suddenly so cynical.

The obvious solution: instead of having a guest-star accused of murder, it should have been Lex Luthor on trial, unable to mount a credible defense, escaping, hiding with Lois, Lois being committed to clearing his name -- while Clark is absolutely convinced of Lex's guilt in what is, to his friends, inexplicably cynical. The story could then have Clark in the reluctant position of aiding Lois only to discover, to his horror, that Lex is actually innocent of this one particular murder despite Clark's certain knowledge that Lex has killed lots of people and will continue to do so.

What the hell happened here? As with "Witness," there's the odd sense that this was a freelance script not rewritten properly because the incoming executive producer wasn't entirely sure what he was doing yet.

Top
#251940 - 05/19/16 12:12 AM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 8 Illusions of Metropolis [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Hey hey hey it's episode eight! Illusions of Metropolis! Go get it! Meet ya back here!


Edited by tom2point0 (05/19/16 12:13 AM)

Top
#251941 - 05/19/16 12:14 AM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 8 Illusions of Metropolis [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Ok why was it called Vatman? I'm researching for the next episode and I don't see much at all!

Top
#251946 - 05/19/16 06:39 PM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 8 Illusions of Metropolis [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
I assume because the clone was grown in a vat? (I haven't rewatched this episode yet.)

Top
#251952 - 05/20/16 07:33 PM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 8 Illusions of Metropolis [Re: ireactions]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
That's what Cory thought too. I guess it's as credible a theory as any. I would have preferred something Bizzare Brother or Bizarre Beginnings. Some type of reference to Bizarro rather than Batman.

Top
#251969 - 05/24/16 11:48 PM Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 9 FOUND RIVAL is LIVE! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
HEY YOUUUU GUYYYYYYYSSSSSS!

A new episode is up! "Found Rival" in which we discuss The Foundling and The Rival is live! Get it here!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-05-23T08_20_03-07_00


Edited by tom2point0 (05/24/16 11:50 PM)

Top
#251989 - 05/31/16 10:13 PM Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Where is everybody these days? Well, WE are still around and recording like mad so go grab the new episode!

ManFly is available, in which we discuss Vatman and Fly Hard!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-05-30T17_47_17-07_00


Edited by tom2point0 (05/31/16 10:13 PM)

Top
#251991 - 06/01/16 05:26 PM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
I've been busy writing SLIDERS stories after a period of rest and recuperation.

"The Foundling" is one of the greatest episodes of LOIS & CLARK ever made. For a whole season and for all of Clark's life, his origins have been a mystery to him even if they weren't to the audience. The script is very clever: rather than base any tension around Jor-El's information (which the audience already knows from decades of comics and other TV shows and movies), the tension is around how Luthor will use that knowledge to his own advantage. David Warner imbues Jor-El with nobility, strength, importance and love, especially in the section of voiceover where he asks Clark not to mourn him; that the knowledge that his son would live to hear his final message is enough.

The only issue I take with Jor-El is that he doesn't really comment on Superman's mission and purpose or what he hopes Clark will do with his powers. The fact that Clark isn't a power mad lunatic who has destroyed the human race is something of a miracle and Jor-El doesn't get into that at all.

The character of Jack is on one level a magnificent addition to the show. Most of the characters at the Daly Planet are positive, upbeat, moral people whereas Jack is cynical and in some ways self-serving and scripted with a hilariously caustic tone and played with detailed perfection by veteran performer Chris Demetral. But on another, the character of Jack is completely redundant; Lois is plenty cynical and caustic despite her good heart, Jimmy represents the youth character -- how does Jack bring anything specific to his character that no one else can provide?

The sad truth is that Jack is really a second attempt at doing a Jimmy Olsen character because the Jimmy played by Michael Landes was not the teen idol that ABC wanted after SEAQUEST's ratings came in and indicated that Jonathan Brandis drew in a large teen girl audience. The fact that producers Deborah Joy Levine and Robert Singer still find a unique voice for Jack is a credit to their skill; the fact that Demetral makes Jack so vivid and distinct from Jimmy is a testament to his superb acting.

Clearly, ABC wishes Demetral had played Jimmy in the Pilot and for the rest of the series -- but that sort of retooling only works before the series has started production, not over halfway into the season.

"The Rival" is another return to form for the series. Linda King penetrates every single one of Lois' defences, reducing a snappy, capable, ballsy Lois Lane into a paranoid, hostile, hysterical mess of a human being who takes her frustration out on Clark and proceeds to declare him "a doormat" while going absolutely ballistic over how the doormat's being wooed by Lois' old competitor.

This is Tony Blake and Paul Jackson's first L&C script and they take over as story editors for Season 2. If this episode is anything to go by, LOIS & CLARK is going to be in great hands. Blake and Jackson capture snappy, fiery exchanges between Lois and Clark while making Linda King seem downright reasonable compared to Lois' frenzied rampage of rage while still keeping Lois understandable and relatable.

Teri Hatcher's performance gives Lois a white-hot rage that finds just the right place between terrifying and hilarious, especially when she is tearing through Clark's apartment. Never in the series have Lois and Clark been so at odds with Lois at Clark's throat through most of the episode and the chemistry between the characters is fantastic.

Dean Cain could easily come off as weak for letting Lois tear into him, but he finds just the right note of neutrality and cunning for Clark, making Clark seem not only gracious but strategically brilliant as his friendship with Linda leads to finding the truth behind the Metropolis Star's ascendance and the secret plot behind the accidents.

And then we have "Vatman." This script is Deborah Joy Levine's attempt to write LOIS & CLARK as a straightforward superhero show complete with a supervillain in the form of Superman's clone. It's a dismal failure on every level and Levine is clearly unable to overcome the constraints of the budget and format.

The first problem is Bizarro -- because the show can't afford a superpowered blowout, Levine is obligated to script Bizarro as a childlike, largely unthreatening being to justify the lack of aggressive fisticuffs or horrific violence from the villain.

The second is scale. Levine attempts to set up a global backdrop for the Superman/Bizarro conflict, but the truth is that with Bizarro so lightweight, there is absolutely no sense of danger to the city, to the world, to Clark or to anyone, really. There's also Dean Cain's performance. Even accounting for the childlike personality in Bizarro, Cain just doesn't sell the character as anything other than a variant on Dean Cain's already awkward Superman persona.

Ultimately, a Bizarro story does not serve the strengths of the series, nor does bringing in a supervillain to be confronted and defeated in episodic fashion. Levine's strengths and the strengths of 90s era TV budget aren't suited to action-adventure stories; Levine and TV in this era are ideally about relationships. Lois and Clark, Clark and Jimmy, Perry and the staff -- and then putting the characters in situations that test those relationships. "Vatman" just throws a supervillain at them and is forced to undermine that at every turn just to make it filmable on their budget.

Which brings us to "Fly Hard," which Tom and Cory seemed to find mediocre and which I consider one of the finest hours of LOIS & CLARK and a real triumph. Cory notes hilarious moment upon hilarious moment such as Clark ranting about how even he can't stop the terrorists holding everyone hostage with a nuclear bomb and how Lois, Perry, Lex and Jack are increasingly astonished at what would appear to be Clark's absurd egotism. Then there's Jimmy, crawling through the vents with Michael Landes' incredibly funny monologing. There's Clark put in the difficult position of needing to distract the Daily Planet team while he uses his heat vision to close Lex's gunshot wound. There's the delightful flashbacks where the regular cast assume roles in Dragonetti's story. There's Cat Grant's self-obsession blinding her to how her coworkers are being held prisoner. There's a real sense of tension and danger matched with a terrific sense of comedy.

Cory and Tom note again that while Jack has a lot of neat moments in "Fly Hard," there is the painful sense that his role might as well be Jimmy Olsen and that's very, very true. Despite Jack and Jimmy having good roles in both this episode and the two-part finale, despite the excellence of Demetral's performance, Jack seems like a foolish and uneconomical addition. The twist of him uncovering Superman's secret is fascinating, especially in how the actor plays Jack as knowing the truth while the show never makes it explicit. Unfortunately, with Jack disappearing after the next two episodes and Chris Demetral refusing to guest-star for Season 2, it doesn't amount to very much. It's a blind alley for an otherwise great episode that taxes Clark and Superman to their limits.

There are a few errors throughout, but most are forgivable. The most glaring mistake in "Fly Hard": Fuentes (Robert Beltran) says that the hostages are not to be killed without the approval of "The Boss." The boss is revealed to be Willie, the security guard, whom Fuentes instantly betrays. Cory touches on this a bit, wondering why Fuentes turns on Willie so suddenly.

But there's actually a bigger problem. Fuentes clearly doesn't consider Willie to be his employer at all, leaving one to wonder why he considered it so critical to follow his instructions and keep the Daily Planet staff alive. The best I can think of is that Fuentes feared Willie would call the police if anyone were killed -- except that Fuentes fires gunshots throughout the episode without any fear that Willie (on the ground floor) will overhear or summon the authorities.

Clark's wearing a T-shirt throughout the entire episode. Where is the costume? I admit, if you follow this line of questioning, then you start asking how the cape doesn't bulge under even a jacket or how Clark can wear both the Superman boots and his shoes.

The best guess I can offer: Clark keeps a few costumes secured in locations in and around the Daily Planet. When he jumped off the roof to catch Lois, he super-sped into the building briefly to grab a set of tights along with the cape and boots, changed and then dived back out to catch Lois.

The show took a strange turn with episodes like "Witness," "Ides" and "Illusions" and "Vatman" seems like an artifact of that shift, but "Foundling," "The Rival" and "Fly Hard" seem like a good blend of the superhero thriller stuff that ABC wants matched with the romantic comedy material that Deborah Joy Levine wants.

Top
#251998 - 06/05/16 11:51 AM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
On the subject of the costume being in some sort of magic pocket -- the NEW 52 Superman comics were a mixed bag, but they did one neat thing: the costume is actually advanced Kryptonian armour.

It can shrink and conceal itself, so it works for Clark to be wearing it under his clothes. It often reduces itself to a tiny version of the S-shield, resting on his chest, and Clark can rip open his shirt just as it's expanded to full sized, and the full costume forms as he pulls off his civilian clothes.

Top
#251999 - 06/05/16 11:12 PM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: ireactions]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Originally Posted By: ireactions
Clark's wearing a T-shirt throughout the entire episode. Where is the costume? I admit, if you follow this line of questioning, then you start asking how the cape doesn't bulge under even a jacket or how Clark can wear both the Superman boots and his shoes.

The best guess I can offer: Clark keeps a few costumes secured in locations in and around the Daily Planet. When he jumped off the roof to catch Lois, he super-sped into the building briefly to grab a set of tights along with the cape and boots, changed and then dived back out to catch Lois.


Of all the strange things associated with Superman,I have never wondered about this. har I don't know why, but where the suit is, goes, does, has or was is something I've never wondered about. It's there when it's there, and it isn't when it isn't. Martha makes them- that's all I need to know.

Quote:
On the subject of the costume being in some sort of magic pocket -- the NEW 52 Superman comics were a mixed bag, but they did one neat thing: the costume is actually advanced Kryptonian armour.

It can shrink and conceal itself, so it works for Clark to be wearing it under his clothes. It often reduces itself to a tiny version of the S-shield, resting on his chest, and Clark can rip open his shirt just as it's expanded to full sized, and the full costume forms as he pulls off his civilian clothes.


I'll buy that explanation for most Supermen, but now you've got me wondering about TNAOS Superman's boots.
There is a fanfic explanation that he compresses the suit and boots into a size that fits into a pocket and uses his heat vision to smooth out the wrinkles when he needs to put them on. I never questioned it!

Top
#252000 - 06/06/16 12:23 AM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
I never thought about it either actually! I seem to remember something somewhere about there being a small pocket in the cape... ah well, like BevK says, it's there when it's needed!

On another note, if you have Facebook, I just posted shots of ME over on the Los and Clark Rewatch page as Superman for the Phoenix Comicon this past weekend. Go check them out! I'd post them here but not sure how pics are posted in the forum if at all.

I'm pretty pleased with the costume! It was a blue spandex suit, one of those ones that cover you head to toe. I had to cut off the hood and then cut the nick down to the seam right around the collar bone, maybe a little higher. Then cut off the hands too. I bought a superman insignia on Amazon, smaller than the dean Cain version unfortunately, and attached it to the blue spandex with rare earth magnets. Held great!

I bought the red trunks on etsy, custom made, and they turned out really nice! However, I learned that you still need some... padding. I used a removable pad from my girlfriend's bra and voila. No embarrassing or uncomfortable moments at comicon!

The boots were bough online as well somewhere. Slightly big for me but they work. Had to wear two pairs of socks but they still slid a little and I ended up with a small blister. Maybe next time, three pairs to tighten the fit.

The cape was actually a devil type cape with a big arched high collar filled with foam. Cut the seam and removed the foam and then cut off the hood and just hand sewed where I cut to make sure it wasn't gonna fall apart. Again, rare earth magnets let me attach that tot he blue spandex seamlessly!

My gf went as wonder woman and we got so many compliments. There were a few other supermen, but only two others were close to mine in quality: a Brandon Routh superman style costume, and an awesome looking Red Son costume! But together, me and the gf, were quite the pair and garnered many requests for pictures. She's already 5'10", but add three inch heels and you get a tall Amazon woman right before your eyes!

Go and check them out and share your feed back here if you'd like!

Top
#252001 - 06/06/16 12:25 AM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Oh and also, you guys haven't known me long, but I'm clean shaven for this cosplay for the first time in like 7 years. I miss my goatee already! Anxious for it to grow back. Waiting... Waiting.......

Top
#252002 - 06/06/16 06:20 PM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
I'm not seeing the photos. I must be blocked or something.

Top
#252003 - 06/06/16 08:37 PM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
Personally, I think that where the non-technological costume is stored is a question best unanswered, unaddressed and unconsidered. That said -- from a costuming standpoint, the best approach would be to also avoid raising the question in the first place.

The costumer should never have Dean Cain's shirts unbuttoned low enough to see the costume isn't really underneath his shirt. In "Fly Hard," Clark should have been wearing a long-sleeved sweater to indicate he wasn't on the clock at work.

With the New 52 costume, however, it's not a problem. However, the New 52 Superman has died and been replaced by the pre-New 52 Superman whose costume was sewed by Martha Kent. So. I dunno. The current Superman has access to the previous Superman's tech, though.

Top
#252005 - 06/06/16 10:37 PM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
So, with "Barbarians" and "The House of Luthor," we have the final episodes of the Deborah Joy Levine era and I have to say it's really hard to say good-bye here. Levine puts together two episodes that reflect all the strengths of Season 1 by having Luthor attack Superman in the most horrific and painful fashion possible -- he promises marriage and Lois accepts and then tears down Lois' life and, by extension, Clark's as well.

There's a darkness to these events that has always seemed out of place with SUPERMAN stories but works in L&C due to Levine's expert grasp of tone. The Daily Planet is destroyed, the characters are sent their separate ways -- but Levine tells the story through scenes of Teri Hatcher and Dean Cain interacting intensely and emotionally with strong undercurrents of love and romance and respect and friendship. It truly is SUPERMAN on a TV romcom budget.

Luthor is at his most disturbed and terrifying in this two-parter, projecting nothing but affable warmth and courtly manners to Lois while exuding manipulative and twisted glee any time Lois isn't in sight. From framing Jack, ousting Perry, dominating Clark and inviting Superman to the wedding, Lex is shown to be horrifically capable at compartmentalizing, assuming one role with Lois and his true self with everyone else.

The second half of this two-parter has often been described as a massive reset button being pushed where Levine, having blown up the show, is forced to rebuild it before the next creative team comes in. Despite all the contrivances, it really sells how the Daily Planet team of Clark, Jimmy, Perry and Jack are a force to be reckoned with and by the end, Luthor must rue the day he ever took them on at all.

The only major and quite frankly absurd contrivance I couldn't quite buy -- Clark lying to Lois after Luthor's suicide and saying he has no feelings for her doesn't quite work. Cain's performance doesn't provide sufficient specificity.

Is he lying because he doesn't trust Lois with his secret? Is he lying because he doesn't think Lois is stable enough right now to start a romance with him? It's arguable that the script is also at fault here, but there seems to be an unwillingness to spell it out and it comes off as the need to roll back on the romance as soon as possible.

All in all, LOIS & CLARK's first season has been a creative success. It's really hard to believe that ABC looked at this show and saw it as a failure needing recasts, creative overhauls and a total reworking for Season 2. One really has to wonder -- were they expecting SUPERMAN THE MOVIE on a TV budget? How could they have bought this show without knowing exactly what it'd be -- a romantic comedy with superhero cameos?

It just baffles and Season 1's end leaves me eagerly awaiting a Season 2 with Michael Landes, Tracy Scoggins AND Deborah Joy Levine that will never come.

Top
#252006 - 06/07/16 07:53 AM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: BevK]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: BevK
I'm not seeing the photos. I must be blocked or something.


Weird, shouldn't be!

https://www.facebook.com/LoisAndClarkRewatch/posts/10154244532570701

That link should help. The pics show up for me even if I log out and go to that link.

Top
#252007 - 06/07/16 12:41 PM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Got it! Add my compliments, too. Both costumes are great- the long capes make them look good. smile (Compared to Supergirl's shorter cape.)

Top
#252008 - 06/07/16 03:20 PM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: BevK]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: BevK
Got it! Add my compliments, too. Both costumes are great- the long capes make them look good. smile (Compared to Supergirl's shorter cape.)


Yay! And thanks! Yeah I like the longer cape! I even had a few compliments on the cape. It hangs nicely and is a good weight so when walking it flows nicely while still staying close to the body. I weighed down Wonder Woman's cape with some bolts and blue duct tape so it would stay down as well. Hers was more of a cheaper Halloween type cape.

Top
#252009 - 06/08/16 07:33 AM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: tom2point0]
SJH Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 909
Loc: floor 13
Nice job Tom. I agree, both costumes are well done.Bolts and blue duct tape. Love it!
_________________________
He forked first- Lois Lane

Top
#252013 - 06/10/16 07:35 AM Re: Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 10 MAN FLY?!?!? [Re: SJH]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: SJH
Nice job Tom. I agree, both costumes are well done.Bolts and blue duct tape. Love it!


Ingenuity! The most important thing you need as a cosplayer! And a glue gun. Gotta have a glue gun.

Top
#252014 - 06/10/16 07:37 AM Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 11 Barbarian House FINALE! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Been sick this past week, recovering from a bad cold I picked up at comicon but it is here...the season finale discussion! Go check out Barbarian House, complete with a special guest appearance from Rewatch Podcast Researcher, iReactions himself!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-06-10T06_09_53-07_00


Edited by tom2point0 (06/10/16 09:19 AM)

Top
#252033 - 06/15/16 01:45 AM Rewatch Pod L&C: Ep 12 Madame Wall is up! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
New episode time!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-06-13T16_59_58-07_00

We begin our descent into Season Two with Madame Ex and Wall Of Sound.


Edited by tom2point0 (06/15/16 01:45 AM)

Top
#252038 - 06/16/16 02:42 PM Re: RewatchPodcast: L&C season 2 begins w/Madame Wall! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
I've always liked Whalin's feel of Jimmy, but I do miss the sarcasm Landes put into the role.

Lois has some extreme ups and downs this season. In WOS, for instance, I'm not sure her issue is anything personal towards Clark more than her own insecurities coming out in a somewhat ugly manner. That's why I'm glad they didn't throw them together during the season one finale; Lois needs to both deal with her issues and become less self-centered before she'll have any chance at a lasting relationship.

Deborah Joy Levine said that at one point she was given the idea from ABC of making Lois and Clark detectives instead of reporters. I wonder if this idea contributed into the changes here? In any case, it's not too different from what we've already seen considering Lois and Clark's constant personal involvement in stories.

Congratulations on finishing season one. I'm looking forward to hearing more.

Top
#252055 - 06/21/16 02:40 AM RewatchPodcast: Source Prank is waiting for U! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Great to hear from you AnnieL! And a new episode is UP!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-06-20T17_55_20-07_00

Source Prank is waiting for YOU!


Edited by tom2point0 (06/21/16 02:40 AM)

Top
#252087 - 06/27/16 09:38 AM Re: RewatchPodcast: Source Prank is waiting for U! [Re: tom2point0]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
Still here, still listening just distracted by kids out of school. The two Supermen appeared in Vatman not The Rival, as mentioned in Madam Ex. Also,as mentioned in the concordance episode Arianna complains about the clone using her left hand too much and then puts the gun in unconscious Lois's left hand. Of course, her right hand was under her dress, so...
The Source is not too memorable, but I always liked the Prankster for the interaction between Lois and the bad guys.

Top
#252088 - 06/27/16 04:56 PM Re: RewatchPodcast: Source Prank is waiting for U! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
The Prankster is one of my favorite episodes simply because of Balki being mean to Lois! I watched Perfect Strangers as a kid (they lived in Chicago, BTW) and seeing Bronson Pinchot play someone so twisted was a lot of fun. I also liked how sweet Victor was to Lois and she kept beating him up!
Every kid I went to school with knew how to do the dance of joy and liked mean Balki on Lois and Clark.

Top
#252107 - 07/02/16 01:26 AM Re: RewatchPodcast: Source Prank is waiting for U! [Re: PMC12]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: PMC12
Still here, still listening just distracted by kids out of school. The two Supermen appeared in Vatman not The Rival, as mentioned in Madam Ex.


Of course! Rival was the one with the old school chum of Lois's right? Our bad!

Top
#252108 - 07/02/16 01:32 AM Re: RewatchPodcast: Source Prank is waiting for U! [Re: BevK]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: BevK
The Prankster is one of my favorite episodes simply because of Balki being mean to Lois! I watched Perfect Strangers as a kid (they lived in Chicago, BTW) and seeing Bronson Pinchot play someone so twisted was a lot of fun. I also liked how sweet Victor was to Lois and she kept beating him up!
Every kid I went to school with knew how to do the dance of joy and liked mean Balki on Lois and Clark.


Chicago Chicago, that toddling town! That's right, couldn't remember! I liked Pinchot as The Prankster but if I remember right, at that point, I Was not a big fan of Balki. It was funny at first but the "donnnn be reeeediculussssss" got over played.

Top
#252109 - 07/02/16 01:37 AM A NEW Rewatch Podcast is UP: Church Operation [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
By the way all, new episode is up! Church Operation is here: http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-06-27T17_33_44-07_00

And if you haven't listened to the past episodes, now's your chance to catch up because... I'm off on vacation to PA and WI for a few weeks so rather than try and find a place and time to record while traveling, we're just taking a quick break. I believe we should have one more episode coming out this next Monday and then you'll have a brief respite from our dulcet tones!



Edited by tom2point0 (07/02/16 01:40 AM)

Top
#252219 - 07/25/16 02:24 AM Re: A NEW Rewatch Podcast is UP: Church Operation [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
We are almost back! Did ya miss us? Yes we were gone, you little sonuva---! Anyway, we are recording our next episode in just about 6 or 7 hours or so and it will be posted up in about a week.

We were gonna be back with a new episode out tomorrow for you but timing for my vacation and Cory's civic duty interfered and rather than try and half-ass an episode we figured let's wait one more week and do it right!

So, stay tuned! Season's Greedings and Metallo are coming!!!

Top
#252229 - 07/28/16 03:36 AM Re: A NEW Rewatch Podcast is UP: Church Operation [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Seems I forgot to post about the previous episode! 15! In which we cover This Old Gang Of Mine and Bolt From the Blue!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-07-04T18_38_37-07_00

New episode coming Monday!

Top
#252252 - 08/02/16 04:26 PM Brand New Rewatch Podcast! Season's Metal! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Ok the latest episode is up! We talk about Seasons Greedings and Metallo and once again Sitcom Tom makes an appearance!

If you've been hankering for more Lois and Clark content and want to HELP KEEP FANDOM ALIVE then check it out here:

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-08-01T18_57_40-07_00


Edited by tom2point0 (08/02/16 04:29 PM)

Top
#252260 - 08/04/16 11:07 AM Re: Brand New Rewatch Podcast! Season's Metal! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
I don't know what this says about me, but I notice too many little things in an episode in addition to the plots. So, now two podcasts have missed the Kryptonian Weakness Moment, as I call it. Though Clark is affected by the space rat, he maintains his super powers, and good old Mama Martha doesn't have to resort to spanking Clark to punish him. She just grabs him by the ear and it hurts him! To bring Superman to his knees- just twist his ear, and 'ow!, ow! he'll do anything to get you to stop.
Yeah, either that or even under the influence he has extraordinary presence of mind and pretended to be hurting. Nah.
In the TNAOS universe Kryptonians have a weakness. (There is a later episode where I spend a lot of time yelling, "Grab their ears! Grab their ears!" to no avail. Martha forgets to share this info when it would really help. wink )
The writers of this show just didn't communicate with one another.

Using the infinity symbol openly on Metallo is a bad guy weakness. I remember comic book Lex being traced through tiny symbols of LexCorp hidden deep inside weapons of mass destruction he makes and uses.

Top
#252263 - 08/05/16 12:33 AM Re: Brand New Rewatch Podcast! Season's Metal! [Re: BevK]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: BevK
I don't know what this says about me, but I notice too many little things in an episode in addition to the plots. So, now two podcasts have missed the Kryptonian Weakness Moment, as I call it. Though Clark is affected by the space rat, he maintains his super powers, and good old Mama Martha doesn't have to resort to spanking Clark to punish him. She just grabs him by the ear and it hurts him! To bring Superman to his knees- just twist his ear, and 'ow!, ow! he'll do anything to get you to stop.
Yeah, either that or even under the influence he has extraordinary presence of mind and pretended to be hurting. Nah.



I actually did notice and wonder about it too! Dean does mention something about that scene in the commentary but I can't remember now what it was. My reasoning is that the spray makes them act like kids so he's reacting on Instinct as a kid would at getting his ear pulled. of course that wouldn't really hurt him nor would a spanking but he's in kid mode. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!

Top
#252268 - 08/06/16 09:34 PM Re: Brand New Rewatch Podcast! Season's Metal! [Re: tom2point0]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
I never noticed that! I would go with Martha, though. She knows her boy and how to punish him. I loved her empty threat, though! Its such a great line, it must have distracted me from noticing the ear thing before.
I don't remember the commentary either.

Top
#252270 - 08/06/16 10:22 PM Re: Brand New Rewatch Podcast! Season's Metal! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
I'm not an expert on human physiology, so take this with a grain of salt -- but just because Superman is invulnerable doesn't mean he doesn't feel sensation. He eats and drinks with relish; he seems to love sugar, he experiences tiredness -- which means he must feel pain.

Weaponry might not pierce his skin, but impact still causes shock and injury like the impact on the asteroid causing traumatic amnesia. Superman doesn't seem to lack nerve endings, so he must still feel the pain even if it doesn't injure.

Top
#252272 - 08/07/16 09:21 AM Re: Brand New Rewatch Podcast! Season's Metal! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Yes. CK/S would need sensation in order to control his powers as much as he does- hug his parents without hurting them, pick up a glass of water without shattering it, turn a doorknob without denting it.

Top
#252276 - 08/08/16 09:44 PM Re: Brand New Rewatch Podcast! Season's Metal! [Re: tom2point0]
KateW Offline
Clark Defenders United

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 1729
Interesting, now that you bring it up. Mom would know the best way to punish an invulnerable kid when he's been naughty.

Kate, who also never really noticed that before

Top
#252281 - 08/09/16 11:40 PM Re: It's a NEW Rewatch Podcast! Steel Eyes! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
The newest episode of the Rewatch Podcast is UP UP and AWAAAAYYYYY for you guys to hear!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-08-08T19_18_20-07_00

Chi of Steel and The Eyes Have It are our topics of discussion!


Edited by tom2point0 (08/09/16 11:41 PM)

Top
#252295 - 08/17/16 04:09 PM Phoenix Copy is the newest Rewatch Podcast! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
He's back! Luthor! And we talk all about it in the newest episode of the Rewatch Podcast: Phoenix Copy!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-08-15T19_21_51-07_00


Edited by tom2point0 (08/17/16 04:10 PM)

Top
#252311 - 08/23/16 11:32 PM Re: OH LOOK! ... Episode Viewing and Chat [Re: tom2point0]
Ximemia Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 27
If you are enjoying these Podcasts, consider joining our episode viewings and group chat. We are just starting again at the Pilot, this Saturday evening.

Everyone is welcome! Please see my post "Episode Viewing/Chat - Pilot" for details.

Xi

Top
#252321 - 08/27/16 11:00 AM Re: OH LOOK! Prank Luck is up! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Doh! I forgot to post this week's show for you all! Prank Luck is up!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-08-22T17_54_28-07_00



Edited by tom2point0 (09/04/16 10:22 AM)

Top
#252342 - 09/04/16 10:20 AM Resurrection Fugitive is UP! A new Rewatch episode [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Life gets so busy! The new episode is up and it is here: http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-08-29T17_45_31-07_00

We discuss Resurrection and Tempus Fugitive (one of my personal favorite episodes!)

And as I post this, we are mere hours away from from Cory and I recording our show about the final two episodes of this season! Exciting!

Let us know your thoughts by emailing us or posting here so we can include them in the show! What did you think of Tempus? What about Scardino? What did you think when Clark popped the question? Tell us! We wanna know!


Edited by tom2point0 (09/04/16 10:21 AM)

Top
#252349 - 09/06/16 01:46 AM Re: Resurrection Fugitive is UP! A new Rewatch episode [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Been listening and really enjoying all the trivia bits you and ireactions have found about the episodes.
Tempus, played by Lane Davies, the hot soap star of the 90s or so I'm told, is a great villain and almost, but not quite, is an equal to Lex Luthor. Lex has everyone beat in the villain department.
This was an episode everyone liked, including my dad (a lifelong Superman fan and now the World's Oldest Fanboy) who pointed out a lot of inconsistencies in the series that I believe to this day.
I personally have a love/hate relationship with Call Me Daniel. He is an annoying presence and Lois being attracted to him and deciding to date him in full view of the entire newsroom is something that bothers me a lot. It's what keeps me a fan of Clark Kent/Superman instead of Lois Lane. Clark may have been fascinated by Mason Drake- a woman who was actually attracted to him and had no problem showing it- compared to Lois who wouldn't admit any such thing for the longest time- but he never dated her. He knew who he wanted,but Mason actually wanted him, and he did seem to like finally knowing what that was like.
Lois's fascination with Call Me Daniel and starting a romance with him so soon after Mason's death, IMO, is an example of how cruel Lois Lane could be.

Top
#252350 - 09/06/16 02:27 PM Re: Resurrection Fugitive is UP! NEW Rewatch! Get it! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
What I hate about this arc is that we’ve been seeing progression in Lois and Clark as characters and as a couple. Scardino throws everyone for a loop: not only are we not seeing much of Lois and Clark together, but Lois regresses back into some of that selfishness she’s started to grow out of, and Clark has to deal with the frustrations of Lois dating someone else again. I think it does turn out for the better on all sides eventually, but it’s difficult to watch at first.

Resurrection was not the time to go into Lois’s insecurities, not when she more than anyone should have understood Clark, being both the closest person to him as well as having experienced that level of grief firsthand earlier in the season. It would have been nice to have heard more of Clark’s thoughts during this episode, as well. This is the first time Superman hasn’t been able to save someone he cares about. Why not delve into that a little? If the sole purpose of a love triangle lies in keeping two otherwise in-love characters apart, it'll likely mess up characterization in one way or another or make the unlucky couple just plain unlikeable. There's no reason to tear apart Lois and Clark at this point. As such, Lois had to become an insensitive jerk and Clark had to take it regardless of whether it fit their characterizations. Target: Jimmy Olsen gives a purpose for Lois’s attraction, which shifts them both back into character.

As for Scardino, I could do without him. Clark’s dwindling attention to Lois makes Scardino’s smarmy remarks seem a lot more genuine and thus more appealing to Lois. When it comes down to it, though, the feelings involved in that relationship are false. Whether they realize it or not they’re both projecting feelings from their partners onto each other, which makes their relationship somewhat meaningless.

Quote:
He is an annoying presence and Lois being attracted to him and deciding to date him in full view of the entire newsroom is something that bothers me a lot.

One thing to remember is that Lois had only been on one or two dates with Clark by this time, so asking out Dan, even in view of everyone else, wasn’t terrible. What Lois should have done is warn Clark beforehand, but her impulsiveness there is understandable even if it’s not the greatest thing to do. Everyone has a limit.

Tempus is an interesting character because he knows Clark's secret. Without that, a lot of what makes him so exciting is lost. He also has the potential to screw things up big time with his being able to time travel and such.

Individual Responsibility proves that even the best can be fooled when they're too close to the story, which helps explain why a certain investigative reporter wasn't too keen on believing Lex was a criminal. I like being able to see a little more of Jimmy and Perry. The writers did a great job with their use of red kryptonite and tying it into the existing love triangle--it was also nice to see Clark’s side of things after being somewhat on the back burner in Resurrection.
I’ve always wondered what Dr. Friskin was thinking when Superman complained about always being called away from Lois and then Lois came around and ranted on about Clark leaving just an episode later.

Great job!

Top
#252354 - 09/08/16 12:33 PM Re: Resurrection Fugitive is UP! NEW Rewatch! Get it! [Re: AnnieL]
KateW Offline
Clark Defenders United

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 1729
Quote:

One thing to remember is that Lois had only been on one or two dates with Clark by this time, so asking out Dan, even in view of everyone else, wasn’t terrible. What Lois should have done is warn Clark beforehand, but her impulsiveness there is understandable even if it’s not the greatest thing to do. Everyone has a limit.



I wish I could be as forgiving. If I was just starting a relationship with a guy I'd known for two years and had just started dating him, and he one day decided to start dating the newly hired girl in the next department at the same time we were dating- well, to me that's terrible. Its disrespectful of me and my feelings and it's hurtful. I'd leave him to his new girlfriend and walk away.
It's what Clark SHOULD have done. Why they didn't let him is beyond me. I think it would have been more interesting to have Lois realize her mistake and have to actually work a little at getting Clark back.
Of course, considering what the writers really had planned, I guess it was all they could think of at short notice.

Kate, who guesses this also is where we separate the Clark fans from the Lois fans

Top
#252358 - 09/11/16 03:39 AM NEW Rewatch! Individual Responsibility is up! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Like BevK, I thought it was cruel of Lois too. I was a bit harsh on her in the episode in fact. I do agree with Annie too though! The haven't been going out that long! They never said they were exclusive, we just sort of assumed it I guess. And then what happens in the finale episode? He asks her to marry him! Whaaaat? Talk about moving fast!

But wait... I am moving too fast! First up we have Target Individual! Located right here: http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-09-05T18_13_44-07_00

We discuss Target Jimmy Olsen and Individual Responsibility. It's actually been up for days but life is busy as always. In fact, my school is closing down for five weeks! Apparently there is structural damage that needs to be fixed. No time off for me though as we are all being sent to a nearby school to share facilities. Fun times ahead! Not!


Edited by tom2point0 (09/11/16 03:40 AM)

Top
#252359 - 09/11/16 03:40 AM NEW Rewatch! Individual Responsibility is up! [Re: KateW]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
I like your idea Kate. That would have been great to see, Lois trying to win Clark instead of vice versa. Never thought about that but it would have been a nice role reversal!


Edited by tom2point0 (09/11/16 03:40 AM)

Top
#252360 - 09/12/16 01:50 AM Re: NEW Rewatch! Individual Responsibility is up! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Quote:
They never said they were exclusive, we just sort of assumed it I guess.

Well, they were trying to talk about moving forward to something more serious (or Lois was, I guess), so to get that impression is pretty natural, I think.
I didn't necessarily mean to imply that it wasn't terrible in itself, but in comparison to the situation as it was originally. Lois asked Scardino out at a time when she and Clark were at a standstill. They had dated a couple of times, but here Clark looked like he was tiptoeing around it and nothing was moving forward. He was leaving every time they began to talk about those issues and moving further. How did it look to Lois, with Clark acting interested one minute and the next giving some lame excuse as to why he needed to leave? How insensitive would that look after a while? There's a difference between deciding on a whim to move on without even telling Clark and finally snapping under these circumstances. It is awful, but I don't think it makes Lois a terrible person, either--not yet, anyway.

Quote:
nd then what happens in the finale episode? He asks her to marry him! Whaaaat? Talk about moving fast!

It took someone else mentioning it for me to realize it was any faster than normal. That just shows how well-done the acting and characterization is here.

Quote:
and he one day decided to start dating the newly hired girl in the next department at the same time we were dating-

What I do hate, and where I'll agree with you wholeheartedly, is when Lois decides she's going to date them both at the same time. It isn't fair to either of them.


Honestly, I think a major reason why Clark never fought any of this too much is because he'd reached a point where he needed to know how she felt. If he let it play out and Lois chose him over Dan, he would know he wasn't just a last resort and that the relationship was worth pursuing. Keep in mind that Clark didn't have a whole lot of room to talk, either, since his behavior looked as awful to Lois as hers did to him. It might not be the best characterization to some (and I say that as someone who favors Clark, even if Lois is sometimes more interesting to delve into), but it is believable.

Quote:
I think it would have been more interesting to have Lois realize her mistake and have to actually work a little at getting Clark back.

thumbsup I agree. I don't think anyone was necessarily out of character here, but that would have been nice to see.
I think Mayson was originally supposed to be a female counterpart to Lex. Who knows? we might have seen some of that. As it is, I do think everything ended for the better, even if it wasn't necessarily as fair as it could have been. Lois stepped up and began bettering herself (even if it did take hitting rock bottom to get there), and Clark got the answers he needed. Those things are pivotal to the evolution of the characters and the show as a whole.

Top
#252365 - 09/13/16 09:11 AM Re: Resurrection Fugitive is UP! NEW Rewatch! Get it! [Re: KateW]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
Originally Posted By: KateW


I wish I could be as forgiving. If I was just starting a relationship with a guy I'd known for two years and had just started dating him, and he one day decided to start dating the newly hired girl in the next department at the same time we were dating- well, to me that's terrible. Its disrespectful of me and my feelings and it's hurtful. I'd leave him to his new girlfriend and walk away.
It's what Clark SHOULD have done. Why they didn't let him is beyond me. I think it would have been more interesting to have Lois realize her mistake and have to actually work a little at getting Clark back.
Of course, considering what the writers really had planned, I guess it was all they could think of at short notice.

Kate, who guesses this also is where we separate the Clark fans from the Lois fans


But isn't that what the fans didn't want? Originally she was supposed to dump CK for Call Me Daniel but the fledgling internet was instrumental in fans getting that idea changed. We got Lois two timing- okay, dating both men at the same time. wink Fans didn't want to see her dating another guy with Clark out of her life, and having Scardino do something to make her see she made the wrong choice. They didn't want to see anything like Lois having to work go get Clark back.
I requested the other podcast try to get an interview with the actor Jim Pirri so see what or if he remembers anything about what was supposed to happen before fan outcry changed it all. I hope they took me seriously! Even if he doesn't remember anything specific about it, at least we'd maybe get a few memories of some kind.

Top
#252366 - 09/14/16 08:31 AM Re: Resurrection Fugitive is UP! NEW Rewatch! Get it! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
I think Lois dumping Clark was what upset the fans. What we see on the series now is what they got after objecting to an act that deliberate. I don't know anything about screenwriting or meeting deadlines, but it seems to me TPTW(ere) could have tried a little harder to rewrite the original idea instead of Lois doing what she did.

Top
#252370 - 09/15/16 11:21 AM Re: Resurrection Fugitive is UP! NEW Rewatch! Get it! [Re: tom2point0]
KateW Offline
Clark Defenders United

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 1729
I wish I had been there to participate. Did Lois and Clark fans do it first? I know this was way before the awful way the teenage shippers ruined "Enterprise" by begging for/demanding a romance between Trip and T'Pol to be as important as space exploration. On a Star Trek show.

Kate

Top
#252386 - 09/18/16 11:30 PM Re: Resurrection Fugitive is UP! NEW Rewatch! Get it! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
All I know is, as we Rewatch these episodes I'm remembering and feeling again, annoyed at the yoyo that is Lois and Clark's relationship. They're together, they're not, they're together, then they're not then they're kind of together but not really... UGH!

I don't know why TPTW felt like putting them together would be the death of the show. There are so many stories that could be told with them together as a couple, as we all know and have found out. There are some great moments coming but I am just as frustrated now as I was when I first saw these episodes.

Top
#252387 - 09/18/16 11:33 PM Re: Resurrection Fugitive is UP! NEW Rewatch! Get it! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Incidentally, the latest episode of the Rewatch Podcast is up, has been up, all week! It's the season Two finale!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-09-12T18_41_32-07_00

And coming up in just a few short hours is yet another episode of the Rewatch Podcast where we discuss the season three opener! So stay tuned!

I'm so late on posting these things, you'd swear my name was Barry Allen!

Top
#252388 - 09/19/16 01:45 AM Re: NEW Rewatch! Individual Responsibility is up! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
If Lois is all of a sudden just uninterested, the budding connection between the two is broken. That's not just something you can fix, and seeing as that was the core of the show, it is a huge problem. I'm just glad they picked something they were able to pick themselves up from.

And the Answer Is is one of my favorite episodes of the series. We've seen the dangerous of knowing Clark's secret via Trask, but this is the first time they focus in on it in such a major way. I agree with you that Clark stealing is surprising; however, Clark's already had to deal with how devastating it was to lose Mayson because he wasn't fast enough. It makes me wonder if that furthered his anxiety, with having firsthand experience of that on a smaller level but also knowing how much higher the stakes are here. Clark's probably more vulnerable than anyone where his loved ones are concerned, so it was an interesting direction to take.

On that note, the only thing that's weird to me about this episode is the whole idea of Clark freezing Lois in order to save his parents. Lois was nearly guaranteed to have some kind of permanent, if not fatal, damage. This is the person he loves. Her safety should have been his first priority regardless of how unclear Clark's thinking was at the moment.
The emotions and suspense of the scene are otherwise incredible, though.

This show has a vibe for speeding relationships, doesn't it? The interesting thing about the proposal is that it sounds like Clark is going to reveal himself as Superman, but he doesn't. But it's also clear that Clark was going to propose anyway, since he had the ring with him. It certainly fits with Clark's explanation of just wanting to make sure she loved him for him first, even if that excuse is completely bogus (he would have told her at the beginning of the episode had he not been interrupted).

This is also a great and very much needed episode for Lois. I like to think that while last season was great for seeing Clark grow into Superman and ended with Clark as the hero, this season focused a lot on Lois's growth. In that way, it's fitting that we see Lois saving Clark here. After everything Clark put up with, they needed to show that she was worth it.

Quote:
There are so many stories that could be told with them together as a couple, as we all know and have found out. There are some great moments coming but I am just as frustrated now as I was when I first saw these episodes.

Season three is my favorite.

Top
#252418 - 09/25/16 04:08 AM The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Season three seems to be the one that most people are divided on: some love it, some hate it. I remember liking it for the most part, but as you've heard me say in the show, sometimes I remember things differently than how they were! Using a more critical eye than the college me used is eye opening! Plus, since I was so in love with the girl who got me into L&C, I probably wasn't looking for plot holes and ridiculous premises as much as envisioning me and her as Clark and Lois.

Indeed, we did have that type of relationship. I liked her, and she seemed to have a bit of interest in me, but was dating her own Lex Luthor (who even stepped in once to stop us from attending a concert together... for a guy he didn't even like the music of!).

Anyway, did ya catch our latest episode? It's the season 3 premiere and it's follow up episode here: http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-09-19T17_52_33-07_00


Edited by tom2point0 (09/25/16 04:09 AM)

Top
#252419 - 09/26/16 12:10 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Lois knowing brings a whole new dynamic to the show, which means a lot of factors change, such as losing the bantering between Lois and Clark. I didn't like the season at first because of those kind of things, so it'll be interesting to see what you think.

This might be jumping ahead a little, but Spencer Spencer using Lois and Clark actually makes some sense. Superman and Lois have always had a public history of closeness, if not romance. The Daily Planet is also a worldwide newspaper, and by this point Lois and Clark are starting to become pretty well-known for their work. They solve a lot of issues, often in crazy ways. How many times would Superman have become involved for the sake of both their lives?

Top
#252420 - 09/26/16 12:34 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: AnnieL]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Very true. I often forget the Planet is planet-wide! And you're right about the public closeness between Superman and Lois for sure. If this were real life, TMZ would have a reporter in Lois like white on rice to try and get exclusive Superman pics as well as trash Lois for not being so into nice guy and boyfriend/future husband Clark!

Originally Posted By: AnnieL
Lois knowing brings a whole new dynamic to the show, which means a lot of factors change, such as losing the bantering between Lois and Clark. I didn't like the season at first because of those kind of things, so it'll be interesting to see what you think.

This might be jumping ahead a little, but Spencer Spencer using Lois and Clark actually makes some sense. Superman and Lois have always had a public history of closeness, if not romance. The Daily Planet is also a worldwide newspaper, and by this point Lois and Clark are starting to become pretty well-known for their work. They solve a lot of issues, often in crazy ways. How many times would Superman have become involved for the sake of both their lives?

Top
#252424 - 09/26/16 05:20 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Season Three is a roller coaster ride to me. Some episodes are good, funny and memorable while others are so bad that's all one can say about them.
According to the early posts on the boards, Teri Hatcher accepted a movie role during the series hiatus that required her to cut her hair, so when she showed up for work on Season 3, it was a surprise. That beautiful shoulder length hair she has in the first episodes of the season is a wig. Apparently it was decided to go with wigs for a while, and we don't see her real hair until the fourth season.
In the concordance post trivia section for WHALTTA , Zoomway told us a story about the clothing Lois wore in the episode in which you had a lot to talk about. smile

Then, back here on the boards, she revealed a little more in one of her last posts which was a reply to me.


Originally Posted By: zoomway
Quote:
It wasn't me! I didn't know what the internet was yet back then! har


Hard to believe that was nearly 20 years ago biggrin But the fans were pretty unforgiving of the wardrobe. I cringed because Paul (the sound engineer) told me Teri was there listening. I kept trying to say things like "well, the dress (ice blue satin) is just a bit too dressy for work, but otherwise..." wink

The truth is, like you, I normally don't pay attention to what actors and actresses are wearing, but I do notice typos and I made a typo in the trivia section goofy

It's interesting you brought up Teri's tan. She said she had a delayed honeymoon in Fiji during the summer hiatus. Dean, I'm not sure. He's an outdoors type of guy year round anyway and one summer he went to Australia. Widget might know more of the timing there. He was dating volleyball superstar Gabrielle Reece, who was three inches taller than Dean. She jilted him for surf god Laird Hamilton. I'm too full of gossip this morning har

Quote:
Also I'm one of about five people who liked Val Kilmer's version of Batman- I think it was said somewhere they can count us on one hand.


I did too, but believe it or not, we fit the fanboy stereotype of those who liked Kilmer's Batman. They said that only women would find him interesting in the role because for women it was only about "looks" and nothing else tongue

Quote:
Good choice of pictures as always and a fun look behind the scenes of the fandom.


Thanks. I try to pick scenes that relate best to specific episodes. As to the background and behind the scenes stuff, I wish I had a better memory. I think my sidekick, Ms Widget, jotted down the information when I'd be endlessly blabbing on the channel about the old days. Believe me, I'm grateful she did or half this trivia would be missing!

Well, off to my appointment (ick)

Zoom

Top
#252431 - 09/26/16 07:53 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
KateW Offline
Clark Defenders United

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 1729
Zoom was a wonder. For the brief time I knew her, I learned a lot about L&C that I had never known before.

I guess I agree about the season being a roller coaster ride. I love the relationship and many, not all, of the stumbling blocks they encounter as it grows, but I kind of wish they left more of the humor in the stories. Listening to what was cut makes me wish some of it existed on tape somewhere. Knowing how little of the bloopers survived, it's an empty wish.

Kate, who is not looking forward to seeing Deborah Joy Levine's wonderful creations being slowly replaced by Leming and Buckner's re-creations

Top
#252434 - 09/28/16 01:33 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Great intro to Irish Eyes. Your love for Scardino makes me wish he would make a reappearance lol

It's always fun to hear what you think of episodes like these. I'm a little too biased towards the show (and easily pleased :D) to be super critical, but I agree they could have gone a different direction to address the equal partners issue.

Oh, and just for the record, Lex had toys, too smile

Top
#252435 - 09/28/16 03:58 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
ChrisP Offline


Registered: 04/09/01
Posts: 680
Loc: San Diego
Teri's hair was her own for season 3. She got it cut between seasons 3 and 4. I agree that her taste in clothes for season 3 was pretty awful for the most part. wink

Top
#252442 - 09/29/16 01:30 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
I'm looking for the posts where I read about the haircut, but so far just found this: Contact
I know it's here somewhere. smile

Top
#252444 - 09/29/16 08:26 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
ChrisP Offline


Registered: 04/09/01
Posts: 680
Loc: San Diego
The wig was season 4. She had gotten her hair cut really short for a movie during hiatus and wore a wig for the first part of season 4. She either got her hair cut between filming WHALTTA and Contact or they filmed WHALTTA before they broke for hiatus between season 2 and 3. The movie she got her hair cut for was Since You've Been Gone.


Edited by ChrisP (09/29/16 08:28 PM)

Top
#252445 - 09/30/16 11:40 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
It's a subject with definite like/dislike opinions. It's fun reading the old discussions about it. Some didn't like the cut and others loved it. It didn't affect the character any, but it does make me think of the conversation between Lois and Clark where she asked him how he would react if his hypothetical wife ever came home with a "hideous" new hairstyle.

Top
#252448 - 10/01/16 02:55 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: AnnieL]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: AnnieL
Great intro to Irish Eyes. Your love for Scardino makes me wish he would make a reappearance lol

It's always fun to hear what you think of episodes like these. I'm a little too biased towards the show (and easily pleased :D) to be super critical, but I agree they could have gone a different direction to address the equal partners issue.

Oh, and just for the record, Lex had toys, too smile


Glad you liked the intro! I always wonder what people think of them! I never thought of myself as Super critical but since starting the Rewatch Podcast I've gotten much more so. Or perhaps my inner critic finally just burst out after all these years of lying in wait!


Edited by tom2point0 (10/01/16 02:56 AM)

Top
#252449 - 10/01/16 03:10 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: ChrisP]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: ChrisP
The wig was season 4. She had gotten her hair cut really short for a movie during hiatus and wore a wig for the first part of season 4. She either got her hair cut between filming WHALTTA and Contact or they filmed WHALTTA before they broke for hiatus between season 2 and 3. The movie she got her hair cut for was Since You've Been Gone.


Hang on hang on...I am confused... IMDB says Since Youve Been Gone was 1998. Now MAYBE the movie was filmed in 1995 early to mid 95, before the season 3 L&C premiere was filming, but it seems to me like a loooooong time for that movie to be in editing.

So Teri got her hair cut between 2 and 3, but didn't wear a wig then. She then again got her hair cut between 3 and 4, and then wore a wig for season 4? Am I following everyone here right? Want to make sure before we mention this in the podcast.

It seems to me that the first two episodes of season 3, she had her old usual haircut. Then between episodes 2 and 3 she got it cut short. Or did she get it cut between season on hiatus and then for the first two episodes she wore a wig made up to look like her old hair and after that ditched the wig and just used her own short hair?

Top
#252450 - 10/01/16 03:21 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Yes, that's right-I double checked on the google forums just to be sure.
Teri's hair doesn't look any different save for being a little longer, but that's normal considering the summer break. So I'm sure it was probably just before episode three was filmed.

Top
#252451 - 10/02/16 08:01 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Originally Posted By: tom2point0


Hang on hang on...I am confused...


It is confusing. There are so many stories out there. I first read about it HERE a couple of years ago.
Now I'm sorry I brought it up! No wonder the person who provided the list was kind of frustrated to see the topic again. smile

Top
#252452 - 10/02/16 12:54 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
No! I'm glad you did! I didn't know any of this and it's interesting to find out little bits of trivia whatever it is.
And what Google boards? You always mention other boards but not how to get to them or link to them.

Top
#252454 - 10/02/16 02:26 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
ChrisP Offline


Registered: 04/09/01
Posts: 680
Loc: San Diego
Oops. I forgot about OP having Teri's longer hair. It's been almost 20 years since we analyzed everything as it happened. lol

Top
#252455 - 10/04/16 01:00 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Clark says his aura extends a few millimeters from his skin, so something that was skin-tight would be protected. His suit coat, which was loose, wouldn't have been.

My memory's fuzzy on the last daydream, but if I'm remembering right it wasn't just "spousal insensitivity" that Clark was faced with. It was a lot of time he was missing with his family. That's something they come back to later, but I'm not really sure where the focus on Lois came from.

We have some fun trivia on Lois's plant here.

Top
#252456 - 10/04/16 11:59 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: AnnieL]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: AnnieL
Clark says his aura extends a few millimeters from his skin, so something that was skin-tight would be protected. His suit coat, which was loose, wouldn't have been.


That's a great explanation!

Top
#252457 - 10/05/16 12:05 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast begins SEASON 3 of L&C! [Re: PMC12]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: PMC12
No! I'm glad you did! I didn't know any of this and it's interesting to find out little bits of trivia whatever it is.
And what Google boards? You always mention other boards but not how to get to them or link to them.


Ah yes sorry! They're some type of old Google groups remnant. When we started doing the Sliders Rewatch, a fella by the name of Open Idry gave us the link, thinking it would be interesting to see what Sliders fans thought as the shows were airing. They appeared to be some type of old style forum originally, but then maybe were merged over to Google Groups somehow? Google started in 98 and these forums pre dates that starting around 94 or so. There might even be posts earlier than that there.

Anyway, when we started to finish up Sliders I thought about seeing if these forums had any L&C stuff in them and they did but not too much for the first season and as we are finding out, I can't find much in the year 1995 either.

I was very excited when I saw Zoomway posted in these forums as well being she's the reason we are actually HERE chatting in this space!

If you're interested, here is the link but be warned, NSFW posts abound here. These seem to be a mostly dead forum now with tons of spam bots leaving messages. Occasionally someone does post a new message but it seems to be rare.

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/alt.tv.lois-n-clark

Top
#252458 - 10/05/16 12:09 AM The Rewatch Podcast: Just Don't Tug is ready! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Oh and hey all, the New episode is UP!

http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-10-03T18_15_47-07_00

We talk about Just Say Noah and Don't Tug On Superman's Cape!


Edited by tom2point0 (10/05/16 12:10 AM)

Top
#252512 - 10/17/16 08:51 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: Just Don't Tug is ready! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
It's difficult to find positive things to say about a lot of these episodes because I know they are leading to the dreaded wedding arc. It isn't that I don't like any of them, it's just that I know the arc is coming!
However, I can say Ultrawoman and Chip Off the Old Clark had their moments. I sometimes forget the humor in every episode so it's nice when you two or ireactions points out something that I forgot.
Both episodes were enjoyable and the trivia was especially good.

Top
#252552 - 10/22/16 09:41 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: Just Don't Tug is ready! [Re: tom2point0]
KateW Offline
Clark Defenders United

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 1729
The echoes are loud in here.


Kate, brushing away cobwebs, too wink

Top
#252557 - 10/24/16 12:31 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: Just Don't Tug is ready! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Thanks for the comments guys and gals! I've been so busy irl with a stolen car.
Yeah, that's right. My car was stolen this past week. Right out of the parking lot at my gf's apartment complex. waiting to hear from the insurance company and see if a rental can be done free or very cheap.

Anyway, sorry for the absence but the newest episode has been up this whole past week and a new one is coming in the next 24 hours or so! Be ready!

Top
#252570 - 10/27/16 12:39 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: Just Don't Tug is ready! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Ok here is the full list of our episodes that I've been slacking on posting about!


Ultra Old! We discuss Ultrawoman and Chip Off The Ol Clark
http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-10-10T18_15_59-07_00

Super Destroyed! We discuss Supermann and Virtually Destroyed
http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-10-18T04_59_42-07_00

Home is on Sunday! We discuss Home is Where the Hurt Is and Never on Sunday
http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/entry/2016-10-24T18_20_15-07_00

And then in just a few days our discussion of the Dad Who Came In From The Cold and Temous Anyone will be up and then we are taking just a week off and we will be back with the rest of season 3!

Top
#252586 - 11/04/16 07:33 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: Just Don't Tug is ready! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Yikes! I hope things worked out.

Nothing wrong with sappy!
HIWTHI focuses a lot on characterizations/emotions and not as much on action (actually, I think what action they do have is a little awkward). I like it because of characterization, but I think anyone more focused on the action would be a little bored. It's interesting how normal Lois's parents appear in season one as opposed to here.

As far as my understanding goes, Superman's lack of medical records would make it pointless to visit star labs-they wouldn't be able to do anything for him. The benefits of using Lois's Dad involved his willingness to be very open-minded (too open-minded) about things, enabling them to find some third option that actually gave Clark a chance. Or that's what I like to think, since there otherwise leaves a gaping hole in the plot.

Weren't you the ones talking about how brilliant Jimmy was back in season one? Michael Landes would have been great for that, since this is probably where his Jimmy could have landed eventually.

One of the main differences between Clark and alt Clark is that Clark seems to be a little bit more toughened, more together. He's not quite as soft spoken, which made him equipped to deal with Lois well in the early days. I wonder if Alt Lois is somewhat softer, too, to smooth out that dynamic.

A theory I've heard is that since Clark was traveling the world at around the same time that Lois did her Congo story, he could have potentially done something that saved her, if only indirectly. With the turn of events in his life in the alternate dimension, it's possible that maybe Lois went missing because Clark never made it to the Congo. It's a little bit of a stretch, but interesting to think about.

Ho boy, we're to that point, aren't we? The next episode is well-done, I think-it's after that that things start to go downhill. Before you go any further, what do you think of the season thus far?

Top
#252588 - 11/05/16 10:04 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: New Episodes are UP! [Re: tom2point0]
hewsonaly Offline
Jimmy Olsen

Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 13
I started listening to this podcast a few weeks ago. Overall, I find it enjoyable and a fun way to revisit the show. Appreciate all of the episode clips you drop in.
Have a few general "nerdy" replies - and please know I am a few episodes behind so you may have already addressed some or all of these:

1.) In Tempus Fugitive, there was much talk over whether Tempus was a relative of Superman. This thought has truly never occurred to me in all times I have watched the show - but in thinking about it - there is one fairly obvious point that was not made: If Tempus is a descendant of Superman, and he goes back in time to kill Superman as a baby so that the future changes...he kills himself. Or, to put it in Back to the Future terms, Tempus gets: "Erased from existence." I was surprised this was not brought up on the podcast discussion, especially since you compared the episode to BTTF so much. (An oversight on my part - I have seen the show and BTTF multitudes of times, yet never realized how many similarities there are [except for the flux capacitor/facilitator thing])


2.) In "Ultra Woman" - Troop Beverly Hills was not 1999, it was 1989. Having spent many a sleepover watching this film, I know for sure it was made before I graduated high school (in 1999), and well before Ultra Woman aired. Also surprised that Sitcom Tom did not mention Shelley Long's most famous role - Diane Chambers in Cheers?!

3.) Similarly - No mention of Melora Hardin playing Molly Flynn in Operation Blackout. Sitcom Tom - Ms. Jan Levinson-Gould from The Office?

4.) Also in Ultra Woman - I always thought that Jonathan and Martha were at Clark's place when they have the heart to heart and he decides to walk to Lois's apartment and wait for her to get home. Why J&M are there I don't know, but I don't think Clark walks from Smallville to Metropolis in one night.

5.) Last, before the episodes surrounding the wedding air, I just want to say (whisper?) I like the wedding arc. [ducks] I do remember getting frustrated with the last couple of episodes, but overall...I think it's interesting, I enjoy TH getting to play different roles, I enjoy the return of a certain someone, and I am a sucker for angst, which this has in spades. Thinking back to when I first saw it as a teenager...I remember thinking it went on forEVER (but that could also be kid-time). In later viewings, and viewings as an adult...I dunno...I just like it. I've lurked in these forums long enough to know those are fightin' words, but I stand by my opinion. I get why people found it frustrating...still like it, though.

Thanks for all your work on the podcast, gentleman! It's been an enjoyable few weeks catching up.

Top
#252590 - 11/07/16 06:46 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: Just Don't Tug is ready! [Re: AnnieL]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: AnnieL
Yikes! I hope things worked out.



A theory I've heard is that since Clark was traveling the world at around the same time that Lois did her Congo story, he could have potentially done something that saved her, if only indirectly. With the turn of events in his life in the alternate dimension, it's possible that maybe Lois went missing because Clark never made it to the Congo. It's a little bit of a stretch, but interesting to think about.

Ho boy, we're to that point, aren't we? The next episode is well-done, I think-it's after that that things start to go downhill. Before you go any further, what do you think of the season thus far?


They recovered my car! Minor damage to get fixed. The guy was caught too. Had five prior felony convictions for car theft too. Not a very good thief.

Anyway, I love that theory and I mentioned it in our latest podcast. Never heard it before but it is a good idea!

And so far I think we like the season pretty good! I'm enjoying it! Defiantly not one of the people who felt it was terrible post clone wedding. It's not as good as the first two seasons but still fun to watch IMO!

Top
#252591 - 11/07/16 06:48 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: New Episodes are UP! [Re: hewsonaly]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: hewsonaly
I started listening to this podcast a few weeks ago. Overall, I find it enjoyable and a fun way to revisit the show. Appreciate all of the episode clips you drop in.

In later viewings, and viewings as an adult...I dunno...I just like it. I've lurked in these forums long enough to know those are fightin' words, but I stand by my opinion. I get why people found it frustrating...still like it, though.

Thanks for all your work on the podcast, gentleman! It's been an enjoyable few weeks catching up.


Glad to have you on board! I brought up some of these points this morning when Cory and I recorded the new episode so eventually you'll get to hear that! I guess Sitcom Tom was sittin down on the job!

Glad you're enjoying the show and keep the comments coming!


Edited by tom2point0 (11/07/16 06:49 PM)

Top
#252602 - 11/10/16 12:01 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: New Episodes are UP! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Spoilers!!!

It isn't that I hate the wedding arc episodes so much I'll attack anyone who likes them like a rabid dog. wink There are quite a few instances in all the episodes that are genuinely funny and I was surprised to find them because to me this is the character assassination arc and the exact spot where Deborah Joy Levine's original creations are replaced by totally different characters- my opinion and my opinion only. (Seriously, can you see first season Lois wearing a tin foil hat the day after Superman was revealed because Trask thought Superman could read minds? This new improved Lois would.) It isn't called the "wedding argh" for nothing.
INPY- neither Clark nor Lois bothered to pack up their apartment in preparation for moving in together in one or the other. Were they planning to keep both apartments? Daily Planet reporters must make excellent incomes to afford two apartments at the same time.
INPY- where is Metropolis located? On the east coast somewhere in the vicinity of New York, right? Okay. That accounts for the great weather they have in New Troy! Green trees all year round, no snow in January just thunderstorms, people arriving at the wedding without heavy coats. When we did the concordance entry, KateW and I theorized that Lex has another nuclear power plant hidden nearby and he turned the power up just a couple of notches to make the weather warmer for his prison escape and all the hijinks that follow.
DJ- the emergence of Lex Luthor and his woman! His Wanda Woman! He needed good, warm weather in Metropolis so she could walk around town in that dress and not get cold.
DJ- This episode has the worst scene in series history. Only Clark knows Lois has been replaced by a clone. Yet, in full view of everyone in the newsroom, he treats his bride of one day like a rag doll. As people stop to watch and a disbelieving Jimmy and Perry rush the intervene, Clark physically attacks the woman everyone thinks is Lois and stalks out leaving her behind with a stunned newsroom. True, they find out the truth in time to make Lois' kidnapping headline news in the next morning's edition, but watching that scene made me very annoyed. Couldn't reminding us Clark has a breaking point have been done without manhandling a woman? Even a clone woman? smile Of course, later in the alley he pushes her away angrily after Lex and his woman drive off, so this abusive anger becomes a trend. It is canon.
DJ- On the other hand, we witness an interesting scene in which the men in her life discuss their relationships with Lois and see just how close she and Lex were during the first season. His marriage proposal shouldn't have been such a surprise to her. She let him into her life as fully as she later did with Clark.
DJ- In this episode, KateW and I theorized that Lois was writing this novel during the time in the first season when she is shown in her apartment listening to Dinah Washington and other old standards. Could she have been researching the kind of singer Wanda was going to be in her novel?
S- If I had to choose which episode I liked a little bit, it would be this one. Lex gets to be the leading man (at Clark's expense) and even in death, gets the woman- that good bye kiss is as hot as any between L&C. The Wanda personality dies with him. His one liners and the funny meeting in the alley with the traitor show a very dashing Lex. John Shea gave the character a lot of charm.
S- This episode gives us a look at my all-time favorite bad guy weapon. I call it the Wanda Weapon. Unlike Nell Newtrich's simple, old red krypton lasergun that just shoots a laser out- any laser pen can do that, Lex's new toy not only kills you and tortures you on a molecular level, but it also starts to undress you! He shoots Clark and when he stops, not only is Clark weakened and in pain, but his shirt has been pulled open to reveal the Superman suit. Keep going Lex! Let's see what else the Wanda Weapon can undo and reveal! The KateW/BevK theory on this one? The Big Bang Theory guys in the Superman universe were recruited right out of grammer school and this laser gun is the result of that action: a powerful weapon that kills you and undresses you at the same time, throwing a little torture in for good measure.
Yes, it is possible to find humor in the arc, but what is done to the characters is terrible. IMO and my opinion only. (I didn't want to write MOO. lol )
Jumping off my anti-arc soapbox


Edited by BevK (11/10/16 12:44 PM)

Top
#252644 - 11/20/16 03:21 AM The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Actually you make some good points and I summarised them, not as well as I should have, in one of the latest episodes, due out this next week I believe it was!

I can definitely see a change in Lois; the hard nosed, feeling-repressing, independent woman spokeswoman of the year is missing. It's not until the last episode we recorded where she punches Deter and knocks him out that I thought, hey, where has THAT Lois been? She had been a lovestruck, pet-naming, tame character for so long I hadn't realised until just then how much she had really changed!

Still though, like hewsonaly, I do enjoy the arc, so far at least. Do I wish the clone wedding hadn't happened and our pair really got married? For sure! Just as I really wish in Sliders a certain character did not have a certain something happen to them which changed the feel of the show entirely! Le sigh. Still though, we went along with it and found a lot to like after that event. Even when the show's cast and goal had been drastically changed, we still found great episodes and rather than focus on what we missed and wanted, we went with what happened and made the best if it, which is what we are doing now.

The Wanda arc is terribly cliche, the resulting amnesia episodes even more so, but there are some great bits in all of the dreck; Teri's portrayal of the clone, Dean doing some of his greatest acting yet, Jimmy finally getting some attention as well as a return to a focus on Perry too, and of course John Shea showing everyone (including Jessie Eisneberg) how to be Lex Luthor... There ARE some diamonds in the rough!

Speaking of diamonds... Here's OUR latest gems for YOU:

Cold Anyone? Discussing The Dad Who Came In From The Cold and Tempus Anyone
https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2016-10-31T17_28_58-07_00

And...Now Jeopardy! Talking about I Now Pronounce You and Double Jeopardy! It begins!
https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2016-11-15T02_35_17-08_00



Edited by tom2point0 (11/20/16 03:32 AM)

Top
#252661 - 11/28/16 06:49 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
I have to admit I'm finding your takes on the wedding arc really interesting. A male point of view has been missing, since, as you might have noticed, most opinions from the early days of the forum are from women. (Even now, come to think of it.)
Maybe I just over think it all too much, but I am a Superman/Clark Kent fan and the changes to the personality of one of the best Clark Kent characterizations ever is too plain for me to overlook even for the story. I know what's coming har so it isn't easy!
I'm glad there are viewers who can just enjoy the story for what it is. I wish I could do that, too, but when something is out of place for me, I can't ignore it.
The Mad Max episodes had their share of humor (I love the dancing in the newsroom!) but Clark/Superman is such a weakling, I can't see anything else.
It was frustrating to watch Forget Me Not and Oedipus Wrecks for the concordance. I had to watch Lois fall in love with Mad Max. Something we never got to see with Clark because it happened over time without a moment like Max got on the garden bench. On the bright side, I guess that means Lois CAN fall in love without making the man jump hurdles and fight every inch of his way to get close to her- if she's of the right mind. Clark just lucked out. smile
I also despised Lois finally learning the truth about her relationship with Clark and immediately running away from him near tears because she didn't want those memories returning. Whatever the reason, she chose Mad Max over Clark and she allowed him to hypnotize her to get rid of those feelings she didn't want to have for Clark!
You can explain it all away as reasonably as possible but the fact of the matter is she chose Max. She chose to forget Clark and stay with Max. All the really well thought out explanations can't change that.
Unfortunately, it also can't change the fact that Clark doesn't give a hoot. He wants Lois Lane so badly, he'll overlook everything she did and welcome her back as if none of it ever happened.
How is his obsession with having her any different from Lex's? Isn't that what started the whole mess in the first place? lol
Oh well. It's all canon from now on.

Top
#252666 - 11/28/16 08:22 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
I don't like the arc, there are so many problems, especially the Dieter storyline. But I also don't have quite the issues a lot of the FOLCs do with it. It's a TV show-I watch to be entertained, so I'm a little bit more easily pleased than others! If I can't find a reasonable explanation, I just try to ignore it. And like Bev said, good explanations are out there for the arc, even if it doesn't make up for Clark suffering again.
On that note, I was sick of Lois's love interests a long time ago. I'm just glad that they're giving her actual reasons to love them that don't require her actually loving them at this point instead of giving us a repeat of Scardino. I don't think there are anymore after this, at least not on her end.

Back when Clark had amnesia his treatment was to stay around what would have been familiar to try and stem those memories.
I'm also a little bummed with the idea of Lois choosing Clark over Lex never playing out. That would have given Wanda's storyline an actual purpose rather than just existing in order to wind us in a circle.

Top
#252673 - 11/29/16 12:00 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
JMO, but like the Scardino business, all of this should have bothered Clark at least a little bit! hairpull
Would it really have been so bad to have Lois work a little to get Clark back? Having their lives just snap back together was too easy for as much drama as they endured.
JMO, JMO.

Top
#252678 - 11/29/16 01:29 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: BevK]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
Originally Posted By: BevK
I have to admit I'm finding your takes on the wedding arc really interesting. A male point of view has been missing, since, as you might have noticed, most opinions from the early days of the forum are from women. (Even now, come to think of it.)


I agree with one exception: I don't think Clark attacking "Lois" in the newsroom is a great scene. For all everyone knows that's Lois! It's Clark mistreating his wife!
I know "Lois" is really the clone but I don't exist within the context of the story.
It's also Superman treating the clone like something disgusting - the one thing he hoped no one, especially Lois, would ever think of him.
Granted, he's been through the wringer, but still.

Top
#252683 - 12/02/16 07:40 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Well, yes, I agree, but Clark does kind of make it up to the clone by staying with her as she dies (after saving his life from both Lex and Lois,) thus letting Wanda Woman and Kent try to suck each others' faces off right over there. That was one heckuva kiss!

Top
#252690 - 12/03/16 08:18 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
Yes, the ultimate sucking face kiss if ever there was one.

Top
#252708 - 12/09/16 05:24 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
I think that the vitriol the fans have towards Robert Singer, Eugenie Ross Leming and Brad Buckner is completely unreasonable, unfair, and in some ways grossly and willfully ignorant. Despite their names being on the show, the truth is that any network television series is ultimately ruled by the broadcaster and their mandates, and LOIS AND CLARK was, like SLIDERS, severely retooled and forced to alter its course constantly due to network mandates.

Dean Cain has stated in interviews that the wedding was planned, filmed and then abruptly reversed by ABC getting cold feet about marrying Lois and Clark. The original script is online; it's clear that Lois being replaced by a clone was an 11th hour addition. The scripts for the post-clone arc have clearly been written with Lois and Clark as a married couple and then awkwardly patched.

The clone arc with Lois' multiple amnesias and Dr. Deter is an abomination, but the episodes are as good as they could possibly be in circumstances where the writers were ordered to abort the wedding, erase Lois' memories, bring in John Shea and replace Lois with a clone. I would challenge anyone on this board to do a better job if required to produce scripts with these plots under these circumstances.

If you want to see a show where the writers truly don't care about their characters and the fans, try watching Seasons 3 - 5 of SLIDERS. LOIS AND CLARK got off mildly.

Top
#252711 - 12/10/16 04:09 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
Thank you for the insults insights.
Happy Holidays to you, too.

Top
#252713 - 12/11/16 08:17 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Oh, Paula, I think we can assume that since I have been the most vocal fan on this thread, the man is referring to me as the ignorant person in question.
However, I will make no apologies for holding executive producers, head writers, story editors and writers responsible for the ideas they put on paper in this case. Network mandate or not, they are/were ultimately responsible for what was put on paper and issued as scripts.
I am not nor ever have been a professional writer so challenging me, or anyone on this board, to write better scripts is just another way to emphasize my ignorance and express contempt for it. Thank you so much for putting me in my place, sir.
I can now say, I HAVE BEEN SCROOGED!

Top
#252714 - 12/11/16 04:44 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
And that is precisely where I take issue with the hatred slung at the LOIS & CLARK team. "They were ultimately responsible" is simply ignorant, and given how extensively these issues have been discussed in interviews and on boards, it is clearly a deliberate choice to be ignorant. Writing for television is a work for hire arrangement in which writers produce what they are instructed to produce.

The claim that the production should be held responsible for the clone arc is the equivalent of claiming that the cash register employee at McDonalds is responsible for the fries getting thinner; that's a decision made well above the level of that particular employee, and given your investment and interest in L&C, I cannot imagine that you are in any way unaware of this -- you simply find it convenient to direct contempt towards someone whose name is in the credits.

The reality is that the LOIS AND CLARK team actively resisted ABC's interference in the show. As a result, Dan Levine was fired and replaced with Robert Singer in Season 1 and then Deborah Joy Levine was fired along with Tracy Scoggins and Michael Landes. The resulting environment of fear was one where the producers hoped to keep their jobs and their people employed and make decent television where they could.

The second season starts with a run of generic superhero episodes but gradually, Singer, Blake and Jackson worked in more romantic elements, finding a compromise between the superhero show ABC wanted and the romcom Deborah Joy Levine had created. With Season 3, Singer, Ross-Leming and Buckner attempted the same, getting as far as getting Lois and Clark married -- until ABC abruptly ordered the episode be altered in the midst of filming to have Lois replaced with the clone.

To blame Singer, Ross-Leming and Buckner for ABC's interference and their best efforts is fundamentally absurd and in direct contradiction to reality. I wonder why someone who likes superheroes who stand for truth and justice and someone who likes a television show about journalists would prefer a simplistically inaccurate fiction over the truth.

The Singer, Ross-Leming and Buckner team went onto do SUPERNATURAL where they had much more creative freedom from the network. While they have not been immune to misfires and screwups, they have generally shown a fondness for fans and their wishes that was often prevented during their time on AND CLARK.

Top
#252715 - 12/12/16 12:58 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Ok.....

I think the thing we all need to remember is that we are all fans that have different viewpoints and while you may be offended by the word "ignorant", I don't think ireactions was trying to say you're a dumb idiot poopypants for having your particular viewpoint. He was merely stating that his viewpoint is that blaming the entire crew is unfair given the information that's out there.

If I may refer to our previous podcast topic Sliders, we came upon plenty of information about that show where the executive producer could actually be blamed for the downfall of its later seasons as that EP openly talked about wanting to get rid of certain actors, wanting certain things to happen in each episode regardless of whether it made sense for the characters or stories, and even at one point barely giving the show any attention at all due to personal things going on in his life. We have a case there where the EP was a destructive force NOT TRYING to maintain the integrity of the show. There is in fact, a webpage out there that has a random story generator based on that EP's comments and discussions and the results that come up are so ridiculous and crazy until you remember that he actually said these things and was such a negative force in Sliders lore.

Given the interviews and articles about L&C that exist, none of which I have looked at myself but am trusting ireactions's impeccable research abilities, it would seem that the EP here and the crew WERE TRYING to fix things but we're fighting against the network itself which leaves their hands very tied. In my own research, checking back at the old listserv I found information about a certain writer of L&C seemingly reaching out to fans and trying to assure them, only to later have to try and apologize in the script to those fans because something changed and he wasn't allowed to write the story the way he wanted, not because of the EP or editors and such, but rather because the network had stepped in. In fact, I much like ireaction's McDonalds example as it does a good job of simplifying the issue.

For myself, I dont blame them all but I can understand why one would blame the whole team behind the show. It's your opinion that they are all responsible for the successes as well as the failures. They put the stuff down on paper and submitted it. Truthfully, sure, they could have done differently but it's likely that they would have been asked to rewrite or simply be rewritten or fired and replaced. I'm sure the writers were thinking they could toe the line and earn a paycheck or be the squeaky wheel that gets replaced and is out of a job.

It's definitely a romantic notion to think that the writers held the power but that was a different time. Nowadays story is much more the king in TV land where we have had shows like LOST and Walking Dead or Game of Thrones or any number of shows that require specific episode order viewing to understand the whole overall arc. The networks seem to finally understand that being able to present a story a particular way will payoff dividends whereas in the L&C days. That was definitely not their viewpoint.

I hope that we can all move on together and not let this deter the discussion. I don't believe any attacks were intended but instead was just someone sharing their contrary opinion. One side will continue to blame all, the other will blame select people or the network, and never the twain shall meet. One may think the other is wrong, but agreeing to disagree is what this all must come down to as everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Top
#252716 - 12/12/16 01:04 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
And now... Having said that...

New episode are up: Seconds Forget in which we discuss Seconds and Forget Me Not is here https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2016-11-21T22_21_27-08_00

And Wrecks After All in which we discuss Oedipus Wrecks and It's a Small World After All is here: https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2016-12-05T16_27_35-08_00

And soon, within the next day or two, we will be posting our discussion of the last two episodes of the season as well so stay tuned! Once that episode is up, we will be on a short hiatus until the new year as we take time off for the holidays to travel and visit family and friends but we WILL be back. We took this same time off last year and given we are finishing up season three with the next episode, it was a good breaking point.

But keep the discussion coming! I'll be checking in as I do and commenting as I can!

Top
#252717 - 12/12/16 12:18 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
PMC12 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 715
Then why say anything so insulting at all? The original statement blanketed all fans as ignorant. I took offense and I still do. Both of you targeting Bev specifically is flaming, but I'm sure she'll thank you to try again to diffuse the situation.

Top
#252718 - 12/12/16 12:39 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Let it go, Paula.

Top
#252721 - 12/12/16 02:30 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
KateW Offline
Clark Defenders United

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 1729
I don't know what set off the original post by ireactions and I don't care because he doesn't. He wanted to belittle someone and he did.
But Sitcom Tom, what set you off? To continue the attack on the one person who used this forum to talk to you? And you hope the discussion will continue despite the fact that you made it clear you agree with your friend what some of us think doesn't matter because we're ignorant?
I'm sure someone will continue the discussions but you lost me, for one. Not that I ever was a frequent commentator.

Kate, who is at a loss to imagine why anyone needs to make another person feel bad for any reason

Top
#252722 - 12/12/16 02:44 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Let it go, ladies. Thanks for the support but there is no point in furthering this.

Top
#252724 - 12/12/16 04:57 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
I think my use of the word "ignorant" was inappropriate and I apologize. I should have said "incorrect." I don't think the people I disagree with are stupid -- I certainly agree with their criticisms of the material and find then intelligent and well-considered and deeply insightful.

I just don't agree with their criticisms of the people whose names are on the material.

It is incorrect to hold the names in the credits solely responsible for how a TV show airs or that it reflects their wishes. Deborah Joy Levine's name is on every Season 2 - 4 episode as "Executive Consultant," a meaningless credit. The credits only reflect contractual arrangements where that name was hired to do a job -- but they may have done it with many supervisory forces dictating how they would go about their work and what they would produce.

If Robert Singer didn't respect the show, "Madame Ex" and "Wall of Sound"'s generic superhero versus supervillain style would have been the entire series for the rest of its run. That's all ABC wanted. It's what they fired Deborah Joy Levine to get.

The fact that LOIS AND CLARK became a completely generic superhero show in its early Season 2 episodes and then stepped back to its roots significantly would indicate that Singer and his team worked very hard to try to meet their obligations to do supervillains -- while still having romcom elements present. Deborah Joy Levine fought ABC overtly and defiantly; Robert Singer fought ABC covertly and strategically.

It's funny -- I remembered that after Season 1, LOIS AND CLARK became a totally generic superhero show. I remembered wrong; there was a lot of pushing and pulling in both the romantic direction and the action direction across the last three seasons.

The truth is that in the 1990s, television was not seen by network executives as a meaningful artform. It was seen as filler between commercials; ABC couldn't just show dead air between the napkin ads, they had to put something on. The content of LOIS AND CLARK -- and most TV shows really -- was seen in the same way one would look at a diaper commercial. It wasn't about stories; it was simply about empty marketing with content a secondary concern.

Superheroes fighting supervillains was how ABC wanted to sell LOIS AND CLARK. Singer and company found a way to meet that mandate while adding romcom elements, but at times, they were defeated by abrupt, sudden and unconstructive direction -- like being ordered to alter "I Now Pronounce You" at the eleventh hour.

I have been doing a lot of research on LOIS AND CLARK in preparation for the final LOIS AND CLARK podcast. And the upshot of all the tidbits I've found and will pass on to Rewatch Podcast in due time is that the writing staff -- who have all gone on to do wonderful work in subsequent shows -- were frequently fighting against the network and were surprisingly in tune with the fans.

But writing for a television network is work for hire; you are obligated to produce what you are asked to produce by network executives who, in the 90s, didn't look at shows in terms of content but in terms of advertising.

And so -- if you are a staff writer told to write a script where Lois and Clark get married and then you are told to alter the ending in mid-filming to have Lois replaced by a clone, and if you are told to give her amnesia and then give her amnesia again and then have her romanced by a smitten and manipulative therapist, then your role is to take all the notes and mandates and execute them in as professional a manner as one can and create a filmable piece of writing on budget and on deadline.

It is unfair to blame the writers for "I Now Pronounce You" ending with Clark married to a Lois clone. That's not the draft they turned in and what aired does not reflect their wishes. The same is true for all the other names in the credits for many aspects of LOIS AND CLARK.

Top
#252729 - 12/13/16 12:06 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
You know, somehow my post is seen as an attack and I just reread it and I don't understand where that comes from. I was attempting to clarify what iReactions had said, not add fuel to the fire. I even stated that I UNDERSTOOD where everyone was coming from with their hatred of the entire production team of L&C but that I simply didn't agree.

Is this forum not open to contrary ideas? Are we only allowed to discuss things here as long as we all agree?

If you choose to hate on the whole L&C team, I am fine with that. I may not agree with that thinking but I did NOT belittle anyone for that. I did not say anyone was ignorantor dumb for that. I just believe something to the contrary than what you believe. You take THAT as an attack? I'm quite shocked that my call to "agree to disagree" is seen as me attacking anyone. I was trying to call for a truce where we allow everyone to have their own opinion. Everyone is entitled to that: me, iReactions, Kate, Bev, all of us here. I offer you my apology if you somehow saw me as attacking anyone and ask you to please explain further how I have wronged you here. I am truly at a loss.

I participated here because of the interactions between you all; because you have been keeping the flame of L&C going after all these years and I love that. Your support of our Rewatch of the show has always been appreciated and it's why we mention you in every tag we have ever done. We wanted other people to find you guys and gals as well. I'm saddened that contrary opinions have led to this breakdown in our interaction.

Top
#252730 - 12/13/16 12:37 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Well..I will say that I'm still enjoying the podcast, and I appreciate being able to read different perspectives on things that I didn't have a very solid opinion on before, which happens a lot! I'm just grateful there are a few other people around here to discuss things with, and you have all made a lot of good points!

But on that note, and this is all I'm going to say on the subject, I never thought there was anything wrong with Tom's post, either, and I appreciate how respectful he always is when we bring in different viewpoints. I hope we can go on and continue discussing the season finale and season four, since the podcast is great way to do that and we're about to enter into some great episodes! Honestly, this is the only podcast I've been able to follow for more than a few episodes, probably because Cory and Tom take such an optimistic view on everything despite their constructive criticism. I try to be optimistic in my comments, too, even if it doesn't always come across as such.

As for the topic at hand, I'm not going to pretend I know everything about television management and networks and all that jazz, but it seems to me that the writers must have had some freedom somewhere during the course of the arc. Scenes like Clark's with Lois's clone at the DP didn't need to be so harsh on his part, and I can't imagine why management would have stepped in and directed something as small as that. They had control somewhere, and I will blame them for the smaller moments even if they don't bug me as much as they do others, at least not at that point, since it sounds like DJ was aired before the network stepped in.
What's rumored is that partially through filming the network got cold feet and shut down the writers, which meant that they had to make some huge changes very quickly. At that point, with the start of the arc already airing and filming needing to get done ASAP, the writers likely went with whatever they could think of, even if that meant taking ideas from the network and just throwing them in. In that case, the writers are technically responsible for what went in, but the actual limitations and such a rushed time span would have distorted what could have still been a great arc. There wasn't time to write something that wasn't an abomination, and so I do try to cut them some slack. I do agree though that there were still times when it wouldn't have hurt anyone or changed things all that much to have been just a little less sloppy where characterization is concerned. That's still technically the fault of the writers, since that was under their control even when plotting may not have been, but it is forgivable. I know I've had my fair share of criticism of this arc, too, but I don't and never did believe the blame falls squarely on the writers, and I hope this makes that clear!
For the most part, though, Tom is right that they were trying. We got gems with Wanda and the clone and even small moments that were nice between Lois and Clark in OW. (Though if Zoom's theory was anything to go by, at least Buckner was making what he could of it). I won't completely blame the writers for that reason, but Bev does have a very real point. I'm also not going to stop wishing the writers could and would have written some things differently, even if it isn't entirely realistic!

I also don't blame anyone for just shoving the arc on the back burner and not dealing with the aftermath. It would have been nice to have dealt with all of that, but at the end of the day I'd rather they just pretended it never happened (as much as you can, anyway).

I'm excited to see what your thoughts are on the season finale!



Top
#252731 - 12/13/16 02:38 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: AnnieL]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: AnnieL
I never thought there was anything wrong with Tom's post, either, and I appreciate how respectful he always is when we bring in different viewpoints.


Thanks Annie!

Originally Posted By: AnnieL
I hope we can go on and continue discussing the season finale and season four, since the podcast is great way to do that and we're about to enter into some great episodes! Honestly, this is the only podcast I've been able to follow for more than a few episodes, probably because Cory and Tom take such an optimistic view on everything despite their constructive criticism.


High praise! Much appreciated too! If you were into Sliders, there were so many awful moments in the latter seasons but we really did try to remain optimistic there as well, finding the little rare diamonds in the rough. It was very difficult in those later seasons!

Originally Posted By: AnnieL

I'm excited to see what your thoughts are on the season finale!


Well guess what? They are up! I was anxiously awaiting this arc as I remember it being a fave of mine and researching it was no disappointment! Enjoy!

Our discussion of Through A Glass Darkly and Big Girls Don't Fly is live:
https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2016-12-12T16_20_10-08_00

Top
#252732 - 12/13/16 05:51 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: I Think We're A Clone Now!!! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
Hi, again. I would like to apologize once again -- this time to PMC12, BevK and KateW for the combative and insulting tone of my posts. Not that this is an excuse, but at the time I made those posts, I was writing a script.

I was writing a series of very angry speeches for the lead character and I got a little too into character and I was still in-character when I visited this board. This was a Christian Bale in TERMINATOR 4 moment and in retrospect, I should never post on message boards right after writing emotionally charged scenes.

I should also add that one should not associate Rewatch Podcast with me or my behaviour; I am really not much more than a listener who sends them emails they read while recording. I am hoping they'll cover the script I'm writing after their run on L&C is complete, but I wouldn't hold them to it.

I would like to attempt a do-over and post my opinions the way I should have posted them, which I think would be this way:

I realize that the LOIS AND CLARK fanbase has a lot of vitriol and anger towards the Season 3 clone arc and the resulting ratings crash that arguably killed the series.

However, I think the situation is significantly more complicated than the stewardship of showrunner Robert Singer and lead writers Eugenie Ross-Leming and Brad Buckner. Every TV series has far more hands involved than just the names in the credits and every show is subject to the mandates laid down by the broadcasters. The network's orders are law; the producers and writing staff are contractually obligated to follow at least the letter of it.

In the case of the clone arc -- while there is a shortage of clear information regarding the production situation, it is incontrovertibly true that Singer, Ross-Leming and Buckner intended for Lois and Clark to be married with "I Now Pronounce You." The script submitted to the network and approved for filming ends with Lois and Clark wedded.

The intention was to continue the show with Lois and Clark as a married couple. Dean Cain stated in interviews and to fans that the wedding was filmed but then "taken away" by the network. Production staff on set during the filming of "I Now Pronounce You" expressed their excitement at this milestone event.

The pages in which Lois is revealed to have been replaced by a clone are clearly a late-stage addition to the script. The manner in which this addition has been made -- using existing scenes and refilming the conclusion -- would indicate that ABC got nervous and made a last-minute directive to abort the wedding, give Lois amnesia and open the door to resetting the show to Season 2.

In terms of Robert Singer and his personal wishes for the show -- there is also indisputable evidence that he liked LOIS AND CLARK as a romantic comedy series, was in favour of the romance and the marriage, and that he was often hamstrung by the network. The evidence is onscreen in the aired episodes.

This was the case as early as in Season 1: ABC wanted to market LOIS AND CLARK as a superhero show and was dismayed that Superman only made brief cameos. They ordered changes and then fired producer Dan Levine and hired Robert Singer to work with Deborah Joy Levine and implement the network's changes. Levine was blatantly defiant to ABC; after Season 1, they fired her along with Tracy Scoggins and Michael Landes.

With Season 2, the first run of episodes are completely generic superhero versus supervillain stories. The romcom aspect is near non-existent. If Robert Singer did not care about LOIS AND CLARK's original conception as a romantic comedy, he would simply have continued the show as it was in this state. He would have received no trouble from the network for giving them the generic superhero show they'd fired the Levines to get and the network was not pushing for the return of the romcom material.

In Season 2, the romantic comedy aspects of LOIS AND CLARK made a return. Given that ABC didn't want that to happen, the only force that could or would have pushed for those elements would have been Robert Singer and his team (Tony Blake and Paul Jackson in Season 2, Ross-Leming and Buckner in Seasons 3 - 4). Which means that Robert Singer understood the show about as well as Levine and wanted the same things she did -- he just didn't fight in the same fashion.

Instead, he gave ABC their superhero versus supervillain show. Season 2 and onward features an emphasis on villains, always casting two people as villainous double acts, often engaging in stunt casting to get big name guest-stars for the villains. This was meeting ABC's mandate. But over the course of the first run of Season 2 episodes, the romance between Lois and Clark in the course of facing off against villainous duos makes a gradual resurgence followed by a total return -- alongside the villains of the week.

If the LOIS AND CLARK writers were out to upset the fans, they would never have written episodes where Mayson Drake's competition reignites Lois feelings for Clark or where Clark asks Lois on a date or the Season 2 finale where Clark proposes marriage. ABC didn't want any of that -- but once placated with their supervillains, they were more willing to give the LOIS AND CLARK team some leeway -- until the wedding at which point ABC panicked.

The fact that LOIS AND CLARK's clone arc ends with Lois getting her memories back is also a tribute to the creative team -- because I believe (admittedly speculatively) that if ABC had gotten its way completely, the clone arc would have ended with Lois losing all memory of Clark's dual identity and forgetting the marriage. That's the only narrative purpose for the clone arc, a purpose that is abruptly sidestepped and dodged by its finale -- and I believe (again, speculatively) that Robert Singer's appeals to ABC eventually convinced them to let the clone arc end and end the way it did.

What is not speculative, however, is that the writers were subject to serious interference from ABC where ABC did not want romance or the marriage. The writers made determined efforts to keep LOIS AND CLARK's romantic side and Lois and Clark's relationship intact in the face of ABC being against it.

The irritation and exasperation that fans express towards the clone arc is legitimate. But to hold the writers responsible for that distress is contrary to the facts: the network dictated the cancellation of Lois and Clark's marriage after it had been filmed, along with Lois getting amnesia. The original script for "I Now Pronounce You" is definitive proof of this.

In this situation, producers and writing teams do not have the option of simply writing the opposite of what the network has demanded. Aside from a resignation, their only choice is to take all the notes and requirements and execute them in a script that is as professional as they can make it, as filmable as they can write it and as timely as they can deliver it. (Well. I suppose there's the SLIDERS option of hacking out unprofessional material, but that's a different show and a different podcast series.)

It is very easy to assume that the names in the credits bear sole responsibility for the final product, but the reality of television production is that credits only reflect the contractual obligations that see someone hired to perform a certain task they may or may not have performed. For example, Deborah Joy Levine is credited as executive consultant on every Season 2 - 4 episode. She barely consulted and has disowned all of it.

Credits also do not indicate how the person may have been subject to supervisory orders and instructions as to how they were to perform and what they were to produce. It is beyond question that Robert Singer and his team wanted Lois and Clark married and ABC did not. It's simply untrue to say they were sabotaging their show and their relationship with the fans.

Top
#252849 - 01/17/17 12:14 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: Back from Break! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
It's been a long break for us here as we have been traveling and spending time with the family and friends but we are back and ready to finish up our Rewatch with Season 4!

Cory and I discuss Lord of the Flys and Battleground Earth right here: https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2017-01-16T14_38_59-08_00

Go check it out and let us know what you think about what we thunk!

P.S. I know it's supposed to be "thought". I'm just being goofy. Just worried about grammar Nazis!


Edited by tom2point0 (01/17/17 12:14 AM)

Top
#252875 - 01/24/17 07:23 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: Back from Break! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
Tom and Cory have posted the latest installment where they discuss "Swear to God This Time We're Not Kidding" and "Soul Mates" at http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com/ -- and I have nothing to add on "Soul Mates." However, regarding "Swear to God" -- Tom and Cory make good points in that having already done a wedding episode in "I Now Pronounce You," the writers were at a loss for how to do it again, hence this highly offbeat storyline of breaking the fourth wall.

There is actually one thing the writers could have done -- in that the original script for "I Now Pronounce You" had a completely different version of events leading up to the wedding. The rehearsal dinner was held at the Daily Planet with takeout food instead of the upscale hall that had been intended. The Season 4 team could have used the original version of "I Now Pronounce You" and written the Wedding Destroyer into the story and had the wedding unfold at the Daily Planet.

However, they chose this reality-bending route where a mysterious man named Mike whom Lois and Clark recognize without retaining any memory of him apparently twists and folds space and time to give them their wedding. Tom and Cory theorize that Mike is a guardian angel, perhaps the archangel Michael. Uh. To put it plainly... no. Mike cannot be explained literally in the context of Lois and Clark's fictional reality.

Mike represents the writing staff of Lois and Clark who have inserted themselves into the story and are speaking through this avatar. This theme is present in the Wedding Destroyer and Voyle, who represent the ABC network executives who prevented the original wedding in "I Now Pronounce You," and they are presented as people who thrive on pain and suffering. The tabloid journalists harassing Lois and Clark represent the press who mocked L&C for the publicity disaster that was the clone storyline, some of whom wrote articles mistakenly describing Lois-2 as a "lizard eating clone," hence Lois angrily correcting them that the clones ate frogs, damn it.

"Clark. I'm just here to help you both get what you've wanted for so long -- what everyone's been waiting for so patiently and praying for so hard," says Mike. "Sometimes it takes us a while, but we're always listening."

That's not a guardian angel. That's not an archangel. That's Robert Singer, Eugenie Ross-Leming and Brad Buckner having stepped inside the universe of L&C for one episode and chosen Mike as their skin. When the characters remember Mike, they're remembering how the writers have always been on their side, while Mike acknowledges that sometimes, he hasn't always been able to give the characters and fans what they want.

I love "Swear to God." But it's a terrible episode; Mike is played by an actor who lacks the screen presence and weight to sell his earnest otherworldliness. The scoring is awkward and clumsy. The performances reacting to Mike are shockingly poor as is the scripting to convey the offbeat familiarity. But I love it because "Swear to God" is a rough draft for the meta-episodes of SUPERNATURAL, a later show Singer, Ross-Leming and Buckner worked on (and still do).

SUPERNATURAL, a show about two brothers who travel across the US fighting monsters, started doing metatextual, fourth-wall bending episodes -- first with Season 2 where the boys end up on the set of a horror movie, and then explicitly with Season 4 where the brothers discover that there is a series of novels called SUPERNATURAL.

These novels relate in exact and accurate detail the brothers' adventures. The brothers are astonished to discover the books have a massive fanbase of readers, fanfic writers, cosplayers and websites.

The boys confront the writer -- who reveals that he's been publishing his psychic visions of the boys' adventures and apologizes for some of the worst episodes as well as the physical beatings. The boys use the writer now and then to provide them with foreknowledge of future events while the writer is plainly an avatar of the SUPERNATURAL writing staff.

In subsequent episodes, the boys attend a convention of SUPERNATURAL readers and are distraught by the fans re-enacting some of their more traumatic memories and outraged by some of the shipping. At one point, a manic fangirl kidnaps one of the brothers and uses magic to coerce him into marrying her. In a later episode, the brothers are appalled to see a musical version of their lives conducted by a theatre troupe of high school students.

These episodes are the most popular installments of SUPERNATURAL -- and all this metatextual humour originated with "Swear to God," an early draft, an experiment -- which goes to show how the first time you do something, you'll probably suck at it.

Notably, SUPERNATURAL learns from all the screwups that Tom and Cory note in "Swear to God." The writer of the SUPERNATURAL novels makes recurring, small appearances after his initial introduction to properly establish the character.

When he then starts making an impact on the show's myth-arc, his presence has been established. Rather than make him omniscient, the show presents him as a ne'er do well drunk. Rather than make him exist outside the show's universe, he lives within it with his reflections on the writing process giving voice to the writers without making them intrude on the series' reality.

"Swear to God" is a rough sketch of something wonderful to come -- on a completely different TV show by the LOIS & CLARK team.

Top
#252876 - 01/24/17 11:52 PM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: Not Kidding, Mates is UP! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
As ireactions said, the new episode is UP!

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2017-01-23T18_01_51-08_00

I remember thinking that I liked Swear To God but yeah after watching it with the thoughts of a reviewer, I really didn't like it as much as my memory thought I had!


Edited by tom2point0 (01/24/17 11:53 PM)

Top
#252877 - 01/25/17 01:11 AM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Not Kidding, Mates is UP! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
I think the key to liking this episode is learning to enjoy all the crazy things about it. I always look forward to it just because Mike's so weird!
Despite all of its, um, quirks, I did like the wedding vows a lot.
I'm a little behind on listening due to the new year, but I'm glad you're back up and running!

Top
#252885 - 01/26/17 07:39 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Not Kidding, Mates is UP! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
Interestingly -- Tom and Cory speculated that Mike is the archangel Michael -- which is amusing to me since the archangel Michael is a recurring character on SUPERNATURAL whom the Singer/Ross-Leming/Buckner team would write.

Top
#252894 - 01/27/17 09:00 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Not Kidding, Mates is UP! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Yeah the vows themselves were good! We just weren't Mike fans. Overall though, we have been enjoying season 4.... well... that is... we just recorded an episode this past week and we do have some choice words about Professor Cole's Hallucination Machine. Ugh!

Top
#252927 - 02/04/17 06:15 AM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Not Kidding, Mates is UP! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
So we mention in the latest episode about the mess in Clark's apartment and shared a screenshot on our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/LoisAndClarkRewatch/?ref=bookmarks

What the heck is that? A harp? A big glass tube? What kind of stuff did Lois own?

Anyway, catch that episode discussion here:
https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2017-01-31T04_31_22-08_00

Top
#252928 - 02/04/17 10:15 AM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Not Kidding, Mates is UP! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
I could be wrong here, but I think the big glass tube is supposed to be Lois's fish tank!

Top
#252962 - 02/12/17 11:44 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Walking Bob is up! [Re: AnnieL]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: AnnieL
I could be wrong here, but I think the big glass tube is supposed to be Lois's fish tank!


Nope you were right! Others confirmed it too! As well as the episode were talking about this next week where Superman's out of control powers end up leaving the fishtank broken on the floor!

Anyway... The new episode is up, has been up, this whole week! Hop to, y'all!

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2017-02-07T03_55_14-08_00

We talk about Dead Lois Walking and Bob and Carol and Lois and Clark and Cory and Tom and You and Me and... well you get the picture!

Top
#252976 - 02/15/17 11:08 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Walking Bob is up! [Re: tom2point0]
hewsonaly Offline
Jimmy Olsen

Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 13
Regarding the title "Bob and Carol and Lois and Clark," I believe that is a nod to the 1969 film "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_%26_Carol_%26_Ted_%26_Alice

I've never seen it, but I know it contains some adult situations, so an interesting reference for a family show. Guess the writers were sneaking a little something in for the parents.

Top
#252979 - 02/16/17 05:08 AM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Walking Bob is up! [Re: hewsonaly]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77

Oh wow that's right! That actually sounds familiar. I have not seen that either but I do like older movies so I'm sure I came across that title at some point! Nice catch, thanks!

Originally Posted By: hewsonaly
Regarding the title "Bob and Carol and Lois and Clark," I believe that is a nod to the 1969 film "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_%26_Carol_%26_Ted_%26_Alice

I've never seen it, but I know it contains some adult situations, so an interesting reference for a family show. Guess the writers were sneaking a little something in for the parents.


Top
#253004 - 02/22/17 08:16 AM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Walking Bob is up! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
First, I'm watching the John Doe episode and holy cow... his press conference? Do you remember? "We can make this country great again"

Did Trump plagiarise Lois and Clark? Did he steal from Tempus?

I know , just a coincidence. Still it was hard to ignore the parallels with that and the unlikely candidate running and winning the presidency.

Anyway, second thing is we have two episodes up that I forgot to post about!

We've got the Drew Carey Show invasion in Ghosts and the two lamest brothers since Tweedledee and Tweedledum in Stop the Presses.

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2017-02-14T01_54_05-08_00

Then we've got the not so small in stature Howie Mandel playing Mxyzptlk in Have Yourself A Merry Mxymas along with Perry, Jerry, and Biff (sorta!).

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2017-02-20T22_34_03-08_00

We're coming to the end soon! Can you believe it?

Top
#253025 - 02/25/17 02:54 AM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Walking Bob is up! [Re: tom2point0]
AnnieL Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/05/16
Posts: 39
Ghosts is not my favorite episode by far-I don't hate it as much as others, but it really doesn't do much for me. I also didn't love StP. I do appreciate the intentions and I think it's an interesting storyline. Had they actually resolved the issues at hand instead of blowing it off at the end, I think it would have fared a lot better with me.

I've always hated groundhogs day movies, so this Christmas episode has always driven me nuts. (Well, that and Lois has the same arc every single darn Christmas.)

We'll just say these aren't my favorite group of episodes, but I love the chunk coming up!

Top
#253033 - 02/26/17 12:46 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Walking Bob is up! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
This rewatch is astonishing me because Season 4 is shaping up to be the best season of the show. Season 1 was strong and had an excellent but sadly abandoned template (LOIS LANE: THE SERIES) and in the middle, there's a number of ABC-mandated supervillain episodes and Deborah Joy Levine clearly doesn't like writing them and isn't particularly good at them -- she's better at romcom.

Season 2 is terrific, but it has a painfully messy start with another run of ABC-mandated supervillain driven episodes with no romcom material at all and it's only at the midpoint that all the romcom elements return in full force alongside the superhero storytelling.

Season 3 is another year of fine episodes unfortunately marred by ABC interference in which the Clone arc abruptly aborts the wedding, going from an unpleasant anti-climax to an overextended storyline of pointlessness that simply hits the reset button.

Season 4, however, is matching the high points of Seasons 2 - 3 and making some excellent stories out of Lois and Clark as a married power couple and executing character arcs that are only possibly in a post-wedding situation. And given how ABC has completely given up on the show at this point, the interference seems minimal and the writers have a lot of room to experiment.

The invasion of Earth arc where the Kryptonians invade Smallville was a hilarious and brilliant way to pull off an epic on a TV budget. The photos of Lois and Superman having sex causing a tabloid scandal is very well done. This is a great year and it's a shame it's so poorly regarded.

Top
#253143 - 03/20/17 03:23 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Walking Bob is up! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
The end is near! We're recording our episode discussing the last two episodes of L&C in just a few short hours! Suffice it to say, you should go get caught up now!

Our episodes are all here "right now": rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com ...

However... that is all changing very soon! Once the final episode hits your pod catchers you'll find out about the future of the Rewatch Podcast and what is next for us! For those of you who have continued on with us, in just a flash you'll be seeing us taking a huge leap in our podcasts! Stay tuned! We're movin on up!

Top
#253148 - 03/21/17 12:44 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Walking Bob is up! [Re: tom2point0]
KateW Offline
Clark Defenders United

Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 1729
Many of us are still listening, because we love this show, but the fun of interacting is gone.

Kate

Top
#253175 - 03/27/17 11:38 PM Re: NEW Rewatch Podcast: Walking Bob is up! [Re: tom2point0]
ireactions Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 29
https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2017-03-27T00_46_26-07_00

And here we are with an EPIC series finale to the LOIS AND CLARK REWATCH PODCAST, covering "Toy Story," "The Family Hour" and then a retrospective on the series as a whole with a moderately noteworthy guest star of no particular notoriety whatsoever. :-D

It's been wonderful revisiting LOIS AND CLARK and discovering that a series I remember being absolutely terrible was actually pretty good for most of its run. It lost some of its initial strengths, sadly, but it always had engaged and passionate writing matched with earnest and delightful performances, and as much as I longed for three more seasons of Deborah Joy Levine, her successors did a very fine job.


Edited by ireactions (03/27/17 11:39 PM)

Top
#253185 - 03/30/17 08:55 AM The Rewatch Podcast: The End Is HERE! [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
That's right, the final episode featuring Lois and Clark is up and waiting for YOU!

As for our big news, the Rewatch Podcast is moving from podomatic to the podcasting network known as the Golden Spiral Media Network! That's right, we've been picked up by a podcasting network! They are home to a number of great podcasts already, one that I've been listening to for years, Central City underground, which covers the new CW Flash series. We're pleased as punch to be asked to come aboard!

So what is next for the show? Well, we decided with this move, to do some cross pollination, we would cover the one season series of the original 1990 Flash! We're working it out to get the CCU guys on one of our early episodes and do some cross promotion and hope you will join us!

Being that it's only 1 season, we do have our next show planned as well. We will be doing a Rewatch of Quantum Leap! We just can't seem to get out of the 90's! Anyway, for those interested, we will make a few more posts here once we get ourselves setup and hope you'll follow us over to our new home at GSM.

Thanks for all the discussion and feedback and information over the past year. You've helped the Rewatch Podcast grow and become all that it is! Thanks!


Edited by tom2point0 (03/30/17 08:57 AM)

Top
#253222 - 04/06/17 11:27 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: The End Is HERE! [Re: tom2point0]
BevK Offline
Clark Defender

Registered: 04/08/10
Posts: 2368
Thanks, guys, for bringing attention to this terrific series. I WILL miss it. Good luck with your plans for the future.

Quantum Leap? Say "hi" to Ziggy for me. And Gooshie before, you know. wink

Top
#253252 - 04/14/17 10:05 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: The End Is HERE! [Re: tom2point0]
karenc Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 52
Absolutely. It was great seeing attention brought to this show.

Top
#253528 - 06/26/17 08:26 AM Re: The Rewatch Podcast: Special Teri/Dean Reunion [Re: tom2point0]
tom2point0 Offline
Lane and Kent

Registered: 02/26/16
Posts: 77
Hello all, long time no talk! We are still awaiting our final move to The Golden Spiral Media Network where we will begin our rewatches of the 1990 series The Flash and then Quantum Leap, however, we have a special episode for you!

Cory attended Supacon since he lives in Australia and managed to grab about 5 minutes of video of the Teri Hatcher and Dean Cain panel which he captured via Facebook live and you can see here.

https://www.facebook.com/cory.metcalfe/videos/10154906503044118/

It appears as if his video has made it, unaccredited unfortunately, onto someone else's YouTube channel as well, but that is how things go on the internet with some people. We went and recorded a discussion based on a few things our favorite dynamic duo said and present it to you for your listening pleasure.

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/rewatchpodcast/episodes/2017-06-24T20_50_34-07_00


Edited by tom2point0 (06/26/17 08:27 AM)

Top
Page 1 of 20 1 2 3 ... 19 20 >

Moderator:  ChrisP, Kismatt, widget